Tren: Take alone or stack

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Fulano, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. #1
    Fulano

    Fulano Junior Member

    I was reading Bill Roberts profile on tren, and he makes the following statement:

    "There really is no need to stack another [meaning any AAS other than trenbolone] -- testosterone being the only sensible exception -- but if another is stacked then the amount of trenbolone may be reduced accordingly."

    Here are my questions:

    1. How do you feel about doing trenbolone by itself?

    I've read on this board where one vet says it would be a "nightmare" to do trenbolone alone, although he didn't attempt to explain how or why it would be a nightmare. I've also read where people said it would be best to have testosterone be the base and to add tren as an adjunct, although he didn't give any idea of ratios or absolute doses.

    2. Why would you stack trenbolone with testosterone?

    What would be the rationale? How would it change the outcome?

    3. If you were going to use trenbolone and testosterone together in an 8 week cycle, what would the dose of each be week-by-week?

    Would trenbolone be the base with some testosterone added? What would be the dose of each?
    Or would testosterone be the base with some trenbolone added? Agan, what would be the dose of each?

    What would lead you to chose one strategy over the other?
     
  2. #2
    Deacon

    Deacon Member

    you stack it with test for the maximal amount of gains - also because it helps with libido - you can run it alone but IMO that is not the best option
     
  3. #3
    Fulano

    Fulano Junior Member

    Thanks for the input. Having never done trenbolone, I hadn't thought of the libido issue. So, we're talking about reduced sex drive and inability to maintain an erection ("fina dick").

    So, what general guidelines would you recommend for adding test to a regimen of tren? What dosage of each?.
     
  4. #4
    etul86

    etul86 Junior Member

    recommend 500 test and 200 tren. That's a good starting point for a weekly dose. You can increase the dose to 300 or 400. Most people here recommend tren A for your first time. That way if you can't handle the side effects, it will be out of your system quicker than the longer esters.

    Make sure you know about the side effects and do as much research as you can about it.
     
    Fouts likes this.
  5. #5
    Fulano

    Fulano Junior Member

    Thanks for the recommendation.

    Excellent point. I've read about the short half-life of tren, but I've read so much other stuff about so many other things, it's not always easy to keep it all straight. I'm taking notes, though, and I'll remember.

    Doing my best. Thanks for your help!
     
  6. #6
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    What? I cannot have said that! For example, trenbolone and dianabol makes a great combination.

    I'm not finding that in http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/finaplix.htm

    ??

    (edit)

    Oh, that must be from one of those sites that plagiarizes Mesomorphosis articles which Millard has paid to have written, but for which those sites have paid nothing and usually give no credit to the writer either. It is plagiarized from an older profile, and also has some text which presumably is plagiarized from someone else as well, if you found it on the same site that I did.

    It actually does not say as you are interpreting, but rather is referring to there being no point, in terms of maximum possible effect, in stacking another Class I steroid other than testosterone.

    I didn't write that in the present profile because there can be a point, for those with lower tolerance to trenbolone, of using another Class I steroid so as to get a higher degree of that effect without having a large amount of trenbolone. For example, if someone doesn't care for using more than say 30 or 35 mg/day of trenbolone acetate, then adding in some masteron would make a lot of sense.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  7. #7
    nano

    nano Junior Member

    it says in the article:

    Trenbolone is not recommended for sole use in a steroid cycle.
     
  8. #8
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    I'm sorry, I wasn't clear: the "that" was what the OP said that I said.
     
  9. #9
    Deacon

    Deacon Member

    I like to run my tren at about 400 mgs or so per week - more than that does not seem to be much better as far as results go - but then EQ is the same for me - 400 is all I need
     
  10. #10
    etul86

    etul86 Junior Member

    You're welcome, dude! I've never used tren but I'm looking to incorporate it into a cutting cycle as i'm currently trying to gain as much mass as I can.

    Tren is an amazing compound but it also has some pretty harsh side effects. You might consider a high dose of test with a low dose of tren to start. There are also some posts on here about a certain medication or something that is recommended with tren.

    I'm sure some vets could help me out here?
     
  11. #11
    Fulano

    Fulano Junior Member

    The article I read was the trenbolone acetate profile on this website. But I see now how I misinterpreted your wording.

    Here is the actual wording from the profile:


    I misinterpreted "another" as meaning "another AAS". Obviously I made a mistake. By "another" what you meant was "another Class I AAS" right?

    Mr. Roberts, how would you combine tren and test, or tren and other AASs? I realize that's a somewhat broad question to ask, but I'm looking for a pretty general answer. I'm not really looking for specific advice on a cycle for me, right now. More than anything, I just want to understand the pharmacology of the drugs.

    Thank you all for being patient with me. I'm still learning about the classifications of different AAS's among many other things.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  12. #12
    Fulano

    Fulano Junior Member

    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  13. #13
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    Yes, another Class I.

    There's more than one approach.

    One approach is to use an amount of trenbolone that stays within the comfortable range for the individual user and likewise uses only an amount of testosterone that the user finds suitably mild in terms of side effects. An example might be using 50 mg/day of TA (or a total of about 350 mg/week of trenbolone enanthate) and 250-500 mg/week of testosterone.

    Another approach is to go strong with the trenbolone, which might be 75 or 100 mg/day, use anadrol and perhaps Winstrol as well, and add testosterone mostly for the sake of the resulting estrogen. In this case the testosterone dose would be 100-200 mg/week.

    Still another approach is to supplement fairly strong testosterone use, such as 1000 mg/week, with say 50 mg/day of trenbolone acetate.

    Basically the drugs combine very well. Where a user is not particularly sensitive to insomnia or night sweats (a less common problem is anxiety) with trenbolone, that drug can efficiently take care of, if desired, all of the Class I part of a stack. Testosterone, having mixed activity, can either be used as the only additional steroid to fill out the stack, or as one of the steroids used for that purpose.
     
    tileguy123 likes this.
  14. #14
    Fulano

    Fulano Junior Member

    Mr. Roberts, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to respond to my questions. I appreciate the information you so generously provide.

    In a cycle strong in tren, would you be taking the 100-200mg/week of test mostly to replace your natural test that would be suppressed by using all that tren? Is that to maintain libido and sexual function as well as... ? Or does 100-200 mg of test serve some anabolic function when taken with that much tren?

    I'm guessing that it is mostly to replace your suppressed testosterone. Am I right?
     
  15. #15
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    There will be a slight increase in anabolic effect from that small amount of added testosterone, but the real reason for use in that example is that the chosen oral steroids don't aromatize, and neither does trenbolone.

    When no aromatizing steroid is taken, and doses are high enough to yield complete suppression, and hcg is not taken, estradiol levels usually drop too low.

    Taking a modest amount of testosterone such as 100-200 mg/week avoids this problem.

    In a way your summary is right: replacing the natural testosterone with a like amount of injected testosterone avoids undesired changes in estrogen level.

    But the direct problem that would exist otherwise is not lack of testosterone (which isn't a problem provided other androgens cover all of its activity) but lack of estrogen.

    dianabol, for example, could also solve the problem.

    With say a trenbolone/Dianabol stack, then there is no need for testosterone. The two steroids cover all the bases for activity of androgen steroids, and aromatization of Dianabol covers the need for a normal degree of estrogenic activity (or possibly too much, depending on dosage and individual sensitivity.)

    I know some find it heretical to use no testosterone, but actually it can work extremely well, if both the stacking consideration of having Class I and Class II steroids is taken into account and estrogen effect is kept at an appropriate level. Again, the trenbolone/Dianabol stack is a classic example of this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
    tileguy123 likes this.
  16. #16
    Deacon

    Deacon Member


    I strongly agree with running a higher amount of test with my tren and I did this the last time - it seemed to make the after cycle transition much more easy and did seem to make better gains
     
  17. #17
    Fulano

    Fulano Junior Member

    AWESOME explanation. Thanks.
     
  18. #18
    fina lover

    fina lover Member

    Tren alone is not a horrible thing but in most cases your libido will suffer. i noticed a minute lack of sex drive. ive run 4 tren only cycles experimenting with different mg dossing. all the cycles had similar results. i recently did a tren and test prop cycle for 16 weeks and dieted while on cycle and noticed a huge drop in body fat and strength was great but with the prop i had alot of night sweats. so with the tren and test i had more sides. i feel that running the 2 together will maximize your cycle goals but be ready for some nasty sides you may not feel with tren only. on 8 weeks i dosed test prop at 600mg EW and tren at 450mg EW. you would need to dose the test about 200mg weeks higher then tren this will combat the low libido issues and max the tren test gains.tren is much more potent then test so less is needed it would waist the test in my opinion to dose lower then the tren. everyone reacts different though so try it yourself and you be the judge. good luck
     
  19. #19
    solo47

    solo47 Active Member

    At least for the first six weeks, beginning with tren ace then moving into Tren e, I had great (if slightly aggressive) sex drive. Seemed to level off after that then fluctuate wildly.

    Next time, I ran good old Test e (after beginning with Test p) at 500 mg/EW, less than the 600 mg/EW of Tren, and had a steady "always ready" libido.

    So I don't think you need to use more Test than Tren for good libido, but you may feel better. I think Tren e is much easier to handle as far as sides go, probably because the body has more time to adjust. Others will vehemently disagree.

    Solo
     
  20. #20
    Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Steroid Forum Leader

    And also, a given mg amount of trenbolone enanthate contains substantially less trenbolone than is the case with trenbolone enanthate.

    E.g., 350 mg/week trenbolone enanthate is not equivalent in trenbolone content to 50 mg/day of trenbolone acetate, but to about 32 mg/day.

    This is I think the principal reason for differences in side effects: usually, equivalent amounts of trenbolone are not being compared, but instead quite different amounts are being compared.

    Incidentally, part of the reason why I decided on 50 mg/day as what seemed worth testing as a possible standard dosing was because that dosage, in terms of trenbolone content, was equal to 76 mg (1 ampule) of Parabolan per day, which was commonly used with fine success and no real problems by a number of European athletes at that time.

    The amount sounds different -- 50 mg vs 76 -- but actually it is equivalent in terms of the amount of the delivered steroid.

    For some reason, correcting for weight of ester is usually ignored in bb'ing -- I usually ignore it myself -- but it becomes a substantial factor when comparing a fairly long chain ester with a very short one such as acetate. It isn't worth paying attention to when it's for example cypionate vs enanthate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010

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