TRT protocol

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by domino, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. domino

    domino Member

    Hello -

    This is my first thread that I am starting here. I did start the same topic at another site (but they are geared more toward bb's) and I see there are a few doc's on this site that seem to be active participants.

    About me - 41 years old - done having kids a long time ago - had a vasectomy 8 years ago and also since then have varicose on left testicle (I guess common). Anyway at the age of 20 I started to experience very bad headaches that would last for about 45 minutes or so and cause the oft eye to droop and water. My nostril on the left side of my face would close off and I couldn't breath out of it. Long story short these would wake me up in the middle of the night every few hours during REM cycle. I went to several docs and was told I had migraines. So they gave me migraine medication, but they seemed to get worse with the medication. Finally I found a Neuro that did a lot of testing on me and we found out that I had cluster headaches. This is the worst pain a human being can experience.

    it is believed that the hypothalamus has some sort of malfunction or deformity that causes these painful episodes. The cluster cycles for me come every year during the months of October and last for 8 weeks. I get 8 per day. Then once again they come back in May. Very painful to say the least. You can google cluster headaches or even watch some folks on youtube that have them.

    2 years ago I was introduced to the world of magic mushrooms. They actually will abort a cycle even though I had to trip 2 times 4 days apart. It was amazing.

    But after always looking for better I was told that they could actually be caused by low T. So the last time I had a cycle I was tested and my levels came back as what my doc said where fine. They were in the high 200's. After my cycle ended I went back and had another test done. This time they were at 418. This is TT.

    So I found a few Doc's and have been communicating with one a lot. He is one that does TRT to take care of clusters and to stabilize hormone levels so that clusters stay in remission.

    Here are a few questions I have for you guys. He wants me to fly out to see him about this but I really don't feel like spending $ out of pocket when I pay such high ammonites for medical insurance that I have. My regular doc won't do TRT and says that the last test of 418 I am perfectly fine and there is no need for it. I had a referral to an Endo and he said he doesn't treat clusters (lol , no shit). My Neuro said I don't want to go this route because it is a lifetime commitment and he hasn't heard to much about it (but I have read lots about it, he is also old school) so he gives me lots of Rx for imitrex injectables and verapamil, which sometimes work and sometimes doesn't work, same with prednisone and indomethacine as well as depakote.

    I am getting ready to start a cluster cycle at the beginning of October (yes they come like clockwork and the headaches can even be predicted to a specific time, remember the hypothalamus is our biological clock) so they are very specific times and months.

    So I found this Doc in Missouri and he said the following is what he would do for me.... testosterone injections, take 100mg every 4 days. If the SHBG is greater than 15, you will need to see me (as I have the protocol) to lower SHBG with medication.

    He claims he has a patent that he created some medication that actually lowers SHBG. He said this is the protocol that generally works.

    My stats are 5'9" 160 pounds. 11 % BF. Workout 5 days a week. Also mountain bike every other day for 20 miles. I eat very healthy and clean as there are too many things in foods and environment that can actually send me into a full on cluster cycle.

    My last bloods were as follows
    GLOB 32.0
    TSEST SHBG 45.3
    Total T 418
    TSH Ultrasensitive (3rd gen) 1.10

    Just wanted to see what you guys think. During non cluster cycles I guess I am in the normal range for T. But I don't like growing shrooms and they are hard to acquire and it is as if I am wagging the dog anyway and it is only a matter of time until they may or may no longer work anymore.

    Would you guys suck it up and fly out there. I have made an appointment with my regular doc again to go into him with this info from the doc i have been communicating with and demanding he try this protocol for me. Whats the worst that can happen?
  2. cvictorg

    cvictorg Member

    Testosterone replacement therapy for treatment refr... [Headache. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

    Testosterone replacement therapy for treatment refractory cluster headache.
    Stillman MJ.

    Department of Neurology, Cleveland Clinic Foundation, 9500 Euclid Avenue, OH 44195, USA.

    To describe the clinical characteristics and laboratory findings of cluster headache patients whose headaches responded to testosterone replacement therapy.

    Current evidence points to hypothalamic dysfunction, with increased metabolic hyperactivity in the region of the suprachiasmatic nucleus, as being important in the genesis of cluster headaches. This is clinically borne out in the circadian and diurnal behavior of these headaches. For years it has been recognized that male cluster headache patients appear overmasculinized. Recent neuroendocrine and sleep studies now point to an association between gonadotropin and corticotropin levels and hypothalamically entrained pineal secretion of melatonin.

    Seven male and 2 female patients, seen between July 2004 and February 2005, and between the ages of 32 and 56, are reported with histories of treatment resistant cluster headaches accompanied by borderline low or low serum testosterone levels. The patients failed to respond to individually tailored medical regimens, including melatonin doses of 12 mg a day or higher, high flow oxygen, maximally tolerated verapamil, antiepileptic agents, and parenteral serotonin agonists. Seven of the 9 patients met 2004 International Classification for the Diagnosis of Headache criteria for chronic cluster headaches; the other 2 patients had episodic cluster headaches of several months duration. After neurological and physical examination all patients had laboratory investigations including fasting lipid panel, PSA (where indicated), LH, FSH, and testosterone levels (both free and total). All 9 patients demonstrated either abnormally low or low, normal testosterone levels. After supplementation with either pure testosterone in 5 of 7 male patients or combination testosterone/estrogen therapy in both female patients, the patients achieved cluster headache freedom for the first 24 hours. Four male chronic cluster patients, all with abnormally low testosterone levels, achieved remission.

    Abnormal testosterone levels in patients with episodic or chronic cluster headaches refractory to maximal medical management may predict a therapeutic response to testosterone replacement therapy. In the described cases, diurnal variation of attacks, a seasonal cluster pattern, and previous, transient responsiveness to melatonin therapy pointed to the hypothalamus as the site of neurological dysfunction. Prospective studies pairing hormone levels and polysomnographic data are needed.

    Testosterone Replacement in Chronic Pain Patients


    Testosterone deficiency may occur in a severe, chronic pain patient due to over-stimulation and hypofunction of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal-gonadal axis or by chronic administration of opioids which may suppress the hypothalamus and pituitary. Adequate testosterone serum levels are required in males and females not just for libido and sexual function but also for cellular growth, healing, maintenance of muscle mass and bone, and central nervous system maintenance of opioid receptors, blood brain barrier, and dopamine-norepinephrine activity. Testosterone deficiency produces a syndrome of poor pain control, weak-ness, lethargy, depression, sleep disturbance, and loss of libido. Due to the critical functions of testosterone in pain patients, pain practitioners should incorporate testosterone testing and replacement into their pain practice. Although somewhat uncertain, testosterone re-placement may prevent some of the neurologic and bone-related degeneration that is common in pain patients.
    Michael Scally MD likes this.
  3. domino

    domino Member

    I've seen these before. I think I will try this. I was told the goal is basically to level me out. After following a specific link in this though it directed me to a page I had not yet seen.

    I am willing to try anything to be in long term remission. I was just concerned with being shutdown and doing this long term. I think it is better than the alternatives. Some docs do try to give me opiates but they actually make the pain worse. My biggest concern with the off label meds especially verapamil is that it is a calcium blocker for heart patients and the dose I have to take is way over the standard dose which requires me to have a weekly EKG. It affects my cardio big time. LSD is the other alternative but I won't touch it. It took me five years to muster up the courage just to do a few grams of shrooms.
  4. BoulderJoust

    BoulderJoust Member

    mushrooms will make your mind go crazy lsd is a beautiful thing maybe you should rethink your position
  5. deezul41

    deezul41 Member

    Hey domino,
    I can relate to you as I HAD been suffering cluster headaches for many years while on and off cycle..I saw many doctors, nuerologists, and endocrinologists and all diagnosed with cluster headaches..Each had a piece of the puzzle for me to put together to stop or prevent those horrible headaches..First, amytriptiline at the first sign of the headaches stops them in their tracks from becoming severe..Second, O2 therapy helps reducing the severity and length of the headache..Third, and most important, FIND YOUR TRIGGERS and avoid them completely! In my case, Aspartame that was in my EAS Protein was the biggest culprit..Over time my headaches started to diminish but were still occasional, this was still unacceptable for me..With the FDA pulling aspartame out of products most were replaced with ascuflame potassium..This was another trigger of mine...Both aspartame and ascuflame potassium are known to be nuero toxic in humans..As for testosterone therapy, it has been known that stable testosterone levels lower pain levels in humans..
    Just remember there is no magic bullet for these headaches and you must take the necessary steps in order to keep these headaches in check!
  6. domino

    domino Member

    Thanks guys - Since this was first posted back in 13 i have since gone down the path of LSD. A quarter of it keeps them away for 6 months at a time. I was doing shrooms but would have to do them too frequently. LSD is the way to go for me. I have been pain free for a long time now.
    BoulderJoust likes this.
  7. domino

    domino Member

    No longer on any medication at all other than Test. No more verapamil, imitrex, prednisone etc.... just L. Wonderful thing.
    BoulderJoust likes this.
  8. Gramps

    Gramps Member

    Just my luck but test does nothing for my chronic fibromyagia type of pain. I refuse taking narcos from the docs so they toss the typical nsaids at me which I pile in a corner. Good old OTC and a bit of weed kinda sorta take some edge off but I'm still hoping to find that magical pill some day. Take the feeling you have when your leg falls asleep then wakes up. Divide that intensity by 2 but add in the intense body tension you get with the nails across the chalkboard added to it, apply these sensations to the entire body and you just figured out my daily average life. Kinda sucks.

    I saw a program a few years ago with a dude who would insist on medicating off camera as he hated doing it and hated being seen doing it. Do you suppose this was LSD? Sounds like it.
  9. BoulderJoust

    BoulderJoust Member

    I just took LSD last night in a desperate attempt to cure my CH and it worked nearly instantly i couldn't be more thankful i got my life back! i woke up headache free for the first time in awhile. LSD is a miracle drug for ch
  10. Gramps

    Gramps Member

    Was LSD ever used in any way medically?
    BoulderJoust likes this.
  11. BoulderJoust

    BoulderJoust Member

    yes in europe and canada for migraines and cluster headaches but in america its a class 1 drug just like marijuana it has no medical value lmao. Doctors here prescribed me an ergot derived tryptophan that made me tired and feel like shit. LSD is also a tryptophan and an ergot not a chemical derivative. sumatriptan is the medicine prescribed to me since it doesent work very well they make over a billion dollars a year prescribing it. why sell a cure when u can continually sell something that barely works and needs to be continually used?
  12. Gramps

    Gramps Member

    If they cure something they can only fuck you once. To treat you, they can fuck you for a lifetime. I've been studying the history of cannabis. What .gov has done behind the scenes is fucking horrible. 100% control and $$$ motivated. Then there's that pride shit if they were to ever admit they were wrong.
  13. chemman

    chemman Member

    I don't have much to add here besides the fact that I am intrigued by the apparent efficacy of LSD for this condition. I'm also intrigued by the fact that TRT can help CH.

    Cannabis can't be any worse than many of the medications that it could potentially replace/augment. Personally, I would love to try high CBD cannabis for my ankylosing spondylitis. I have read a few people absolutely rave about cannabis for my condition.
  14. Gramps

    Gramps Member

    I'm brewing a cbd strain so can't comment yet as I've only been able to sample typical ditch weed. Even some specifically grown "for pain relief" it was full of seeds indicating to me it wouldn't have the potential of some grown properly regardless of the strain. It does well for relaxing the muscles which is a plus but does very little for joint pain in my case. As for it comparing to general medicine, I don't know of ANY OTC drug NOT linked to any deaths including Baby Powder recently linked to cancer. Deaths from cannabis? The only one on record was Bruce Lee. He was diagnosed as being allergic to it. Even THAT record was withdrawn as it was later found out his was laced with another herb he was allergic to. So, deaths as a direct link to MJ = ZERO in 5000 years. So really, there is no record that any medication is as harmless as cannabis including aspirin and baby powder. And keeping it as a schedule 1 prevents real recorded testing of how beneficial it is.

    I don't recall the symptoms of your AS but I'll bet money some strains related to OG Kush or Northern Lights would be great to just name 2 off the top of my head. Look to your Indicas in general. The trick for pain relief is taking just enough to control pain without getting stoned which I have no desire for. 4-5 hits is a typical dose for most chasing pain. The downside to CBD varieties is couchlock, or a lack of energy making them great for sleep. I had a horrible episode when combining this with my muscle relaxers and lost all ability to walk, talk, etc for 4 hours. I have a list of symptoms versus strains for anyone interested to anyone above Junior.