Upper- lower vs/ body part splits

Discussion in 'Bodybuilding Forum' started by Just1more, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Just1more

    Just1more Member

    When I was younger ( Im 45) the only way to workout I kbes of was one muscle group a day. I recently started with an upper/lower
    routine. Although I consciously know Im hitting body parts at least 2x a week, Im having a hard time feeling that I get enough work in on each muscle group. Again I know with compound exercises Im getting secondary muscles worked as well, I was just wondering should I stay strict to the routine or is it ok to add some more volume so I feel Im realky getting enough work in?
    I know I can kind of answer my own question but feed back simetimes just helos to solidify what Im thinking
  2. Xlgx

    Xlgx Member

    Just1more likes this.
  3. BigNattyDaddy

    BigNattyDaddy Member

    How many days per week do you workout?
  4. Xlgx

    Xlgx Member

    What I found over the years that I have been doing recently that works for me. Is 4x week training.

    Tue and thu are full body days. Tue is upper body focused thu is lower body focused.

    Sat is upper with no direct arm work
    Sun is lower body.
    Just1more likes this.
  5. Just1more

    Just1more Member

    4 at the moment since starting new routine.
    Monday- upper, Tues-lower, Wed-off, repeat with weekend off although maybe hit some smaller muscles lacking on Sat
    BigNattyDaddy likes this.
  6. BigNattyDaddy

    BigNattyDaddy Member

    You could try
    1. Higher number of sets
    2. Higher number of reps
    3. Longer workouts
    4. More workout days
    Just1more likes this.
  7. Could you post your upper/lower routine here so we can make an educated guess? Saying things like increase volume/intensity without actual data could lead to an injury. Keep in mind that it's almost certain you won't have the same pump as your previous routine, pump is no indication of hypertrophy, so that could be the thing making you 'feel' you aren't putting a lot of work.

    Generally speaking 4x a week with such a split if the routine is built correctly is more than enough and it's shown to be better than the classic bro split.
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  8. Just1more

    Just1more Member

    Thanks, out grabbing coffee for me and the wife, Ill post the routine as soon as I get home
  9. Just1more

    Just1more Member

    Workout A upper
    Bench press. 3sets 6-8 , 2-3 min rest
    Rows 3sets , 6-8, 2-3 min
    Incline DB press 3 sets , 8-10 , 1-2 min
    Lat pull down, 3 sets, 8-10, 1-2 min
    Lateral raises, 2 sets, 10-15, 1 min
    Tricep push down 3 sets, 10-12, 1min
    DB curls, 2 sets, 12-15, 1 min rest

    Lower A
    Deadlifts, 3 sets 6-8, 2-3 min rest
    Leg press, 3 sets, 10-12, 1-2 min
    Seated leg curl, 3 sets, 8-10, 1-2 min
    Standung calf raises, 4 sets, 6-8, 1-2 min

    Upper B
    Pull-ups, 3 sets, 6-8, 2-3 min rest
    BB shoulder press, 3sets , 6-8 2-3 min
    Seated cable row- 3 sets, 8-10, 1-2min
    DB bench 3 sets, 8-10, 1-2 min
    Incline DB flys 2, 10-15, 1 min
    BB curls, 3 sets, 10-12 , 1min
    Skull crushers, 2 sets, 12-15, 1min
    Lower B
    Squats, 3sets, 6-8, 2-3min
    Split squats, 3 sets 8-10, 1-2 min
    Lying leg curls, 3 sets, 10-12, 1-2 min
    Sitting calf raises, 4 sets, 10- 15, 1-2 min
    And again I do M-upperA, Tues. -lowerA
    Wed-off, Thurs-upperB, Fri-lowerB, Sat, Sun-off.
    Again thanks for taking the time to look over and give advise.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  10. It's not that bad. It's kinda ok, although the volume needs to indeed be adjusted. As a general guideline for any program, you must decide which body parts you want to give emphasis and which ones to maintain as a general rule of thumb you want to emphasize one to two body parts per training cycle. I don't know which one you want but for these parts that you want to emphasize you want to be ~ at the MAV [maximum adaptive volume] and/or near to your MRV[maximum recovery volume] if you really want to push it.

    Here are the recommended sets per week for MAV

    Chest: 12-20 Sets/Week
    Back: 14-22 Sets/Week
    Biceps: 14-20 Sets/Week
    Triceps: 10-14 Sets/Week
    Rear/Side delt: 16-22 Sets/Week
    Quads: 12-18 Sets/Week
    Hams: 10-16 Sets/Week
    Calves: 12-16 Sets/Week

    You can count yours and add until you hit these numbers. From what I see you are completely neglecting Side and Rear delts and your Quad volume is on the really low end unless you have amazing quads and you want to prioritize something else.

    Here is how I would optimize your program:

    Upper A

    Bench Press 4x6-8
    Barbell Row 4x6-8
    Incline DB Press 3x8-10
    Lat pulldown 3x8-10
    Lateral raises 4x10-12
    Face Pulls 4x10-12 [Can superset rear and side delts]
    Tricep Pushdown 3x10-12
    DB Curls, 3x12-15

    Lower A

    Squats 4x8-10
    Deadlifts 3x6-8
    DB Bulgarian Split Squat OR Walking DB Lunges 3x8-10
    Seated leg curl 3x8-10
    Standing calf raises 3x6-8
    Seated Calf Raise 3x15-20

    Upper B

    Pull-ups, 4x6-8
    BB shoulder press, 3x6-8
    Seated cable row, 3x8-10
    DB bench, 3x8-10
    Incline DB flys, 2x10-12
    Upright Row, 4x10-12
    Face Pulls, 4x10-12 [Can superset rear and side delts]
    BB curls, 3x8-10
    Skull crushers, 3x12-15

    Lower B

    Squats, 4x8-10
    Romanian Deadlift, 3x6-8
    DB Bulgarian Split Squat OR Walking DB Lunges 3x8-10
    Lying leg curls, 3x10-12
    Standing Calf Raises, 3x6-8
    Sitting calf raises, 3x15-20

    This is roughly how I would do it. You can make changes yourself for the sets you have to do to be in the ranges that I provided. You could change the rep ranges as well to be better for each muscle fiber but overall this one is fairly balanced.

    Hope others could chime in as well and share their opinion.
    FourOneDeuxFitt and Just1more like this.
  11. Just1more

    Just1more Member

    Thats such a huge help brother, I really appreciate it. I'm glad I spoke up, I changed to this type of split afrer reading and seeing how I was really missing out on the number of times I was/ could be hitting things. Now I feel with a few tweaks you reccomended Ill be on the right track.
  12. Morefyah

    Morefyah Member

    I’ve been running the PHAT 6 program for a minute and I find it to be very balanced and the off days are timed lperfectly. You can also adjust the volume to your liking.

    It’s is :One upper and One lower body power days. Then Two upper body hypertrophy days and One lower body hypertrophy days.
    Two days OFF! Mega Feature: Layne Norton Training Series + Full Power/Hypertrophy Routine (Updated 2011) | SimplyShredded.com
  13. Just1more

    Just1more Member

    Ill give it a look... Thanks
    Morefyah likes this.
  14. It still, as a program isn't complete, pretty far from it. It's definitely better than your initial one for sure. But there are many things that you need to consider.

    Questions that you should ask yourself are these:

    1] What kind of periodization do you want for your program to progress so you can avoid injuries and possible other setbacks? Block, DUP?
    2] Which body parts do you want to emphasize?
    3] Which body parts do you want to maintain so you can handle the total volume of the program?

    Also, only you can optimize it to it's full extent. You know your body better than anyone.
  15. Just1more

    Just1more Member

    Absolutely, Im going to sit down today go over things, evaluate and make an honest assesment. Then make adjustments as needed. But again, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I always keeo an open mind and am well aware that there is always more to learn, which I uave learned alot since joining this forum. Most everyone here is a big help.
  16. Morefyah

    Morefyah Member

    It really is great and simple to follow.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    Just1more likes this.
  17. Layne Norton's PHAT is indeed amazing form I have heard. I never gave it a try but will most likely will when I hop on cycle. It has pretty much anything you need. My only problem is the days needed to run it.
    Just1more likes this.
  18. It’s an awesome program. Ran it for 6 months last year and made some of the best strength gains I’ve ever made in my life during that time period. Rotated power movements every 2-3 weeks and as you stated above over that 6 month period had the ability to focus on lagging parts and bring those up. What’s nice is the overall volume allows the rest of your body more than enough to maintain while not the primary focus. Although, as you stated, it’s a program that requires the time to do it. But, definitely worth a go.
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  19. Just1more

    Just1more Member

    So, Finally took a few min to slook at the phat program. I'm going to start it in 2 weeks. Im going on vavcation next week and dont want to start off on wrong foot. Im trying to find a gym clise to where we are staying, so I wont habe to take a whole week off
    Morefyah and FourOneDeuxFitt like this.
  20. anfee

    anfee Member

    I had great success from the PHAT program.

    Bench went to 355 5x5 and I maxed out at 425. Prior to the program I was having difficulty benching 405.

    I actually wasn’t a huge fan of squats 5x5 because i always feel like I get more progress when I do lighter weight for 5-6 sets of 15reps. That being said, I did increase my squat with the program - I followed it to the T.