Whey protein for elderly people to stay muscle loss?

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by pinkman, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. #1
    pinkman

    pinkman Junior Member

    Generally speaking, is it safe and beneficial to give elderly seniors who loos muscle mass and strength some daily whey protein? Personally I cannot think of much which would speak against it if you don't overdose on the whey.
    How much could one for example give an elderly woman which weighs like 130lbs?
    Or what else could one do to stop muscle loss? Are there any anabolic substances which could be used in men or women if they're losing to much strength?
     
  2. #2
    foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Well-Known Member

    I'd say be careful

    the body needs a proper balance, and adding protein that is not needed just means the body needs to process and eliminate it, which puts stress on the kidneys

    if the muscle loss has more to do with aging hormonal system than diet, adding to the diet doesn't help at all, in fact you might cause more problems
     
    LW64 likes this.
  3. #3
    cvictorg

    cvictorg Active Member

    http://www.meatami.com/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/63169
    Effect of protein intake on bone and muscle mass in the elderly

    In conclusion, aging is associated with a progressive loss of bone and muscle mass, in part due to protein and amino acid homeostasis. There is reasonable evidence indicating that protein intake levels higher than the RDA (0.8 g/kg/day) might be required for the elderly. Therefore, ensuring that the elderly, in particular, have an adequate dietary protein intake with high-quality proteins and adequate calcium intake is essential for preserving bone and muscle mass. However, evaluating renal function, which decreases with aging, is also important. Finally, protein and calcium intake should be considered in the prevention or treatment of the chronic diseases osteoporosis and sarcopenia.
     
  4. #4
    pinkman

    pinkman Junior Member

    My grandmother is already really old and has dementia and she also loses weight and loses muscle mass. She has a hard time moving around. I cannot tell what she eats all day but I think she gets too little protein and too many carbs and also too little good fats. I would already have given her fish oil but her silly intern doesn't think fish oil is good and since she takes aspirin I don't know if she could take fish oil or if this would make the blood too thin.
    I also thought if one added like 20gr whey protein to her diet per day then would this be a risk for the kidneys? I was thinking about just adding a little whey to her meals. She could drink a little whey mixed with water before every meal and this way raise the protein intake.
     
  5. #5
    Gator8

    Gator8 Junior Member

    This article may be some help. Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | Dietary protein intake and renal function

    I don't think 20 grams would be a problem unless she has pre-existing renal disease. However, I don't think she can supplement or medicate out of this problem without some exercise, assuming endocrine function is correct. The article cvictor provided recommends 0.5 - 2 grams protein / kg daily. Mid range of 1 gram/kg suggest 60 grams total protein as a daily target.

    A major portion of her problem is her lack of mobility. Weight bearing exercise is important for preventing and reversing sarcopenia. However, with dementia she could be at increased risk for falls. Without moving around, her ability to move around will also continue to decline. As muscles deteriorate, joint pain will increase through loss of support around the joints. Ability to maintain balance will decline as muscles weaken. She needs some sort of program within her capacity to get some weight bearing exercise if she is to retain her independence.
     
  6. #6
    cvictorg

    cvictorg Active Member

    Increasing dietary protein requirements in ... [J Am Geriatr Soc. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

    Increasing dietary protein requirements in elderly people for optimal muscle and bone health.
    Gaffney-Stomberg E, Insogna KL, Rodriguez NR, Kerstetter JE.
    Source
    Allied Health Sciences, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut 06269, USA.
    Abstract
    Osteoporosis and sarcopenia are degenerative diseases frequently associated with aging. The loss of bone and muscle results in significant morbidity, so preventing or attenuating osteoporosis and sarcopenia is an important public health goal. Dietary protein is crucial for development of bone and muscle, and recent evidence suggests that increasing dietary protein above the current Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) may help maintain bone and muscle mass in older individuals. Several epidemiological and clinical studies point to a salutary effect of protein intakes above the current RDA (0.8 g/kg per day) for adults aged 19 and older. There is evidence that the anabolic response of muscle to dietary protein is attenuated in elderly people, and as a result, the amount of protein needed to achieve anabolism is greater. Dietary protein also increases circulating insulin-like growth factor, which has anabolic effects on muscle and bone. Furthermore, increasing dietary protein increases calcium absorption, which could be anabolic for bone. Available evidence supports a beneficial effect of short-term protein intakes up to 1.6 to 1.8 g/kg per day, although long-term studies are needed to show safety and efficacy. Future studies should employ functional measures indicative of protein adequacy, as well as measures of muscle protein synthesis and maintenance of muscle and bone tissue, to determine the optimal level of dietary protein. Given the available data, increasing the RDA for older individuals to 1.0 to 1.2 g/kg per day would maintain normal calcium metabolism and nitrogen balance without affecting renal function and may represent a compromise while longer-term protein supplement trials are pending.

    Protein Requirement of Elderly Women
    Nitrogen Balance Responses to Three Levels of Protein Intake

    Protein and Older Adults

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/60/4/501.full.pdf
    Increased protein requirements in elderly people: new data
    Am J Cli,, Nuir 1994:60:501-9. Printed in USA. © 1994 American Society for Clinical Nutrition 501and retrospective reassessment

    A safe protein intake for elderly adults would be 1.0-1.25 g ? kg ‘ . d ‘ of high-quality protein.
     
  7. #7
    foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Well-Known Member

    tuna or salmon is pretty inexpensive, and as part of a healthy meal with some fiber (whole grain bread or crackers, etc.) you would be getting lots of protein and good fats with it too, easy to prepare too
     
  8. #8
    pinkman

    pinkman Junior Member

    Thanks guys.
    I cannot really say how many grams protein she usually gets with her normal food regimen. She does eat meat sometimes and also cheese but I cannot say how many grams she usually gets.
    Exercising isn't really an option she is way over 90 and has a hard time getting up out of a chair or walking. She also has a hard time climbing stairs. She also eats less than in the past and gets those high calory drinks which are specially made for people who don't get enough calories through the regular diet but those high calory drinks contain mostly carbs and I was thinking if adding a little whey to her diet might be a good idea. After all whey is easier to digest than meat or tuna and puts less stress on the body, right?
    I also wouldn't eat tuna because of the heavy metals and toxins it's not worth it.
     
  9. #9
    foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Well-Known Member

    I don't know if I agree with that, I always felt better and my stomach more settled for the rest of the day after eating a salmon sandwich than how I feel after drinking a whey protein shake. something about a properly balanced small meal is way better than a "meal replacement" or powdered concoction

    not to mention the risk of constipation or other digestive upset when dealing with an elderly person, I always err on the side of sticking with natural, centuries tested food choices
     
  10. #10
    pinkman

    pinkman Junior Member

    I never have problems with whey. I drink a whey shake every morning.
    Another advantage of whey protein is also that it contains no purines like other protein sources.
     
  11. #11
    BBC3

    BBC3 Well-Known Member

    Good Answer...>!:) Definitely older kidneys can take no excess.... or not as well.

    First I would like to point out that you young guys should be putting down the freaking whey protien and mixing egg protien in milk. Get your whey from the MILK where it comes from. That is, if you pussies can stand the taste.. LOL[:eek:)] I really dont know where whey protien became such a popular supplement as its just milk protien and now even 1/4 as potent as eggs..!?!?!? Really I suspect they process of turning milk to dust must be cheaper than doing it with eggs. Also consider that the price of eggs has gone from 25 cents to 3 bucks(thats 1200 percent!), whereas milk has doubled or tripled at best. Really? Whats gonna give you more lead in yur pencil, cow tit or a whole fucking chicken..!!?!!?! Ask Arnold but I think you know the answer enough said...

    To the OP the real heart of the matter is that the demand is not there. So it boils down to a TRT like premise. I little excess MAY help in an environment with no increased demand. Consider that perhaps the SHBG does not protect the Hormones, but in fact the SHBG requires the TT to gain access to tissue cells to "gateway" the work/growth process. Perhaps...? No? Maybe? Well consider that if there is not tissue demand then its all excess. I can definitely see however where these studies are going to have positive results overall as I am sure once you get that old, eating just lacks the same old spice. Really, imagine your TMJ in the jawls hurts, you are missing some teeth, your stomach is fucked, and you have either the shitz or a massive impaction that has to be manually DUG OUT by an LPN or less. Easy there and dont forget the gloves. but if it were publicized this availability to get calories and the correct amount, I imagine a good bit a premature wasting could be avoided. BUT THE ATTEMPT WILL BE TO BREAK EVEN IN THE CASE YOU REFER I THINK...

    It should also be noted that the protien used in the supp drinks on the market today are focused on soy protien, which everyone should find very interesting. More than likely people this old are not agreeing with milk products by now, and the taste of powdered eggs reminds this generation of the depression. So go figure. But still, what makes plant protien in the form of SOY any better than any other PLANT PROTIEN, which is all - WORTHLESS for growth or real cellular activity. Then again, at that age we are only a burden on society now aren't we. But there are reasons for everything even beyond my level of incredible omniscience LOL... So I dont challenge the establishments that be for more than one reason... Sometimes, the way things are, are already optimized for the statistical masses. And given our times of luxury, there is little incentive to think other than caring thoughts about matters. Besides, the older have the babies that have the money that make society tick, and they should not be upset. Keep things happy..... I digress....

    If you are caring for an elderly that you care about and want to make sure to help them, then I would suggest monitoring their eating and work habits, and count the NUMBER of calories they consume with consideration for the QUALITY of them. If there is a deficiency then a shake may not hurt all else equal..:)

     
  12. #12
    BBC3

    BBC3 Well-Known Member

    Good Answer...>!:) Definitely older kidneys can take no excess.... or not as well as days past....

    First I would like to point out that you young guys should be putting down the freaking whey protien and mixing egg protien in milk. Get your whey from the MILK where it comes from. That is, if you pussies can stand the taste.. LOL[:eek:)] I really dont know where whey protien became such a popular supplement as its just milk protien and now even 1/4 as potent as eggs..!?!?!? Really I suspect they process of turning milk to dust must be cheaper than doing it with eggs. Also consider that the price of eggs has gone from 25 cents to 3 bucks(thats 1200 percent!), whereas milk has doubled or tripled at best. Really? Whats gonna give you more lead in yur pencil, cow tit or a whole fucking chicken..!!?!!?! Ask Arnold but I think you know the answer enough said...

    To the OP the real heart of the matter is that the demand is not there. So it boils down to a TRT like premise. I little excess MAY help in an environment with no increased demand. Consider that perhaps the SHBG does not protect the Hormones, but in fact the SHBG requires the TT to gain access to tissue cells to "gateway" the work/growth process. Perhaps...? No? Maybe? Well consider that if there is not tissue demand then its all excess. I can definitely see however where these studies are going to have positive results overall as I am sure once you get that old, eating just lacks the same old spice. Really, imagine your TMJ in the jawls hurts, you are missing some teeth, your stomach is fucked, and you have either the shitz or a massive impaction that has to be manually DUG OUT by an LPN or less. Easy there and dont forget the gloves. but if it were publicized this availability to get calories and the correct amount, I imagine a good bit a premature wasting could be avoided. BUT THE ATTEMPT WILL BE TO BREAK EVEN IN THE CASE YOU REFER I THINK...

    It should also be noted that the protien used in the supp drinks on the market today are focused on soy protien, which everyone should find very interesting. More than likely people this old are not agreeing with milk products by now, and the taste of powdered eggs reminds this generation of the depression. So go figure. But still, what makes plant protien in the form of SOY any better than any other PLANT PROTIEN, which is all - WORTHLESS for growth or real cellular activity. Then again, at that age we are only a burden on society now aren't we. But there are reasons for everything even beyond my level of incredible omniscience LOL... So I dont challenge the establishments that be for more than one reason... Sometimes, the way things are, are already optimized for the statistical masses. And given our times of luxury, there is little incentive to think other than caring thoughts about matters. Besides, the older have the babies that have the money that make society tick, and they should not be upset. Keep things happy..... I digress....

    If you are caring for an elderly that you care about and want to make sure to help them, then I would suggest monitoring their eating and work habits, and count the NUMBER of calories they consume with consideration for the QUALITY of them. If there is a deficiency then a shake may not hurt all else equal..:)

     
  13. #13
    pinkman

    pinkman Junior Member

    I also don't know if adding more protein to the diet will stop catabolism especially in really old women. But what else can you do? It simply sucks when you have to watch someone decay and can't do much about it and the doctors also don't do everything they could be doing either out of ignorance or because they're too lazy.
     
  14. #14
    foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Well-Known Member

    I know where you're coming from pinkman and that is good of you to care.

    I wish science had more answers for us. I have elderly parents as well, but I am still reluctant to meddle too much in what they should or shouldn't do day to day.. I know I have always been willing and eager to experiment on myself for antiaging or to improve myself, and experience has shown me over the years that the best intentions in self experimentation with supposed cutting edge knowledge over the years doesn't always turn out as expected, or well.
     
  15. #15
    Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Nutrition and Sarcopenia: A Review of the Evidence and Implications for Preventive Strategies. Journal of Aging Research;2012. Nutrition and Sarcopenia: A Review of the Evidence and Implications for Preventive Strategies

    Prevention of age-related losses in muscle mass and strength is key to protecting physical capability in older age and enabling independent living. To develop preventive strategies, a better understanding is needed of the lifestyle factors that influence sarcopenia and the mechanisms involved. Existing evidence indicates the potential importance of diets of adequate quality, to ensure sufficient intakes of protein, vitamin D, and antioxidant nutrients. Although much of this evidence is observational, the prevalence of low nutrient intakes and poor status among older adults make this a current concern. However, as muscle mass and strength in later life are a reflection of both the rate of muscle loss and the peak attained in early life, efforts to prevent sarcopenia also need to consider diet across the life course and the potential effectiveness of early interventions. Optimising diet and nutrition throughout life may be key to preventing sarcopenia and promoting physical capability in older age.
     

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