Ask Bill Roberts #16

Deca and Acne?

Bill,

I am about to start a 7 week cycle of Deca-Durabolin. Do you recommend stacking an anti-estrogen (such as Nolvadex or Clomid) with Deca? I don’t want to get bloated. Also, what are some ways to combat some of the short-term side effects (mainly acne) of Deca?

Thanks,
Dallas

If Deca is the only androgen being used, antiestrogens won’t help much if at all with bloating, because the bloating is not from increased estrogen. Moderate-dose Deca use doesn’t increase estrogen levels: in fact it can reduce them.

You could try stacking some Winstrol if there is any bloating. But actually, most people don’t get severe bloating on moderate dose Deca.

As for acne, cleansing agents such as cleaning pads containing salicylic acid, or witch hazel, are helpful. And if you are using only moderate dose Deca (400 mg/week or less) then you may have little trouble with acne even if you take no measures against acne.

Insulin-Only Cycle?

Dear Bill,

I am debating to do an insulin cycle. I have read some books on diabetes and know about short and long how to calibrate a blood glucose meter and so on.

Steroids unfortunately are not an option as a good solid 3 month cycle is going to run about $1000-1200CND including Arimidex. I thought that insulin might be a good way to go. As there are no studies I know of on Medline on muscle mass and insulin on training athletes, I want to ask some experts in the field (you) about this.

Erik

I personally am not at all sure that insulin alone will do any anabolic wonders.

I don’t know anyone in bodybuilding who chooses to neglect use of anabolic steroids and do insulin-only cycles. The only possible exception is that Oliver Starr reported in Peak Training Journal #5 an insulin cycle he did, but he never stated explicitly that insulin was the only drug used, and so I am not sure that that was the case at all.

He started at 4 IU three times per day and ended at 12 IU three times per day, and found himself apparently somewhat insulin-resistant at that point.

I personally wouldn’t expect much if no anabolic steroids are being used, but I’d be pleased to see you prove me wrong!

By the way, a steroid cycle certainly doesn’t have to cost as much as you are saying, and doesn’t have to be as long either. Arimidex in particular is quite uneconomical. I am sure that you could do much better with a Primo/Winstrol/insulin stack than with insulin alone, or Deca/Winstrol/insulin, for example, and the cost should be nothing like the figures above.

Women and Tribulus

Dear Bill,

I really enjoyed your article on prohormone use (“Prohormones of AAS“), and appreciate the information about the use of these substances by women. I am a 43-year old female, and have used small doses of various prohormones in a cyclical fashion for over a year, with no noticeable ill effects. I use them only for energy enhancement before training (running and light weights), and they are very effective for that purpose. Additionally, they seem to help in recovery.

I would be very interested in your ideas on tribulus, since its mechanism of action is supposedly via increase in the secretion of LH, which has different effects in women as opposed to men. I have tried tribulus products, and they seem to help me with “getting lean” and with energy enhancement.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Lynn

There aren’t any scientific studies of any substance. The ones cited by Sopharma are Bulgarian studies financed by the manufacturer. So I cannot comment on tribulus from that standpoint.

Personally, it did nothing for me.

But if it worked for you, I’d certainly suggest trying it again, and also keeping everything else the same and omitting it. If consistently you do better with the tribulus than without, then that’s really all you need to know, other than possible toxicity issues. And so far as I know, unless one were to take a great deal of it, there is little if any risk of toxicity.

Cytadren and Gyno?

Bill,

I heard that if you have gynecomastia that by taking 250 mg. of Cytadren every night it would go away.

Is this true? Is this safe? I got gynecomastia from Propecia and it pissed me off. Will cytadren help?

Thanks,
Dan in Houston

Cytadren will lower estrogen levels, which will help reduce nipple soreness and may result in some reduction in size of the gyno, but will not cure it.

I would not use that dosing schedule, because it is almost the worst possible way to take it with regard to inhibiting cortisol production. (The absolute worst way would be to take a single dose at perhaps 2 or 3 AM.) Furthermore, during much of the next day levels of Cytadren will be too low to do anything towards reducing estrogen production, since the half life of the drug is only about 8 hours.

Instead, I’d take half a tab on arising, and a quarter tab at 6 and 12 hours later.

Male Pattern Baldness, Deca, and Testosterone

Dear Mr. Roberts:

I have a question on the effects of Deca and Testosterone on MPB.

I understand that Deca is one of the only AAS that does not promote MPB in individuals that are predisposed to it.

At low doses it doesn’t, because the reduction in testosterone and DHT levels, resulting from inhibition of LH production, more than compensates for the nandrolone levels. At higher levels though it will promote MPB. The break-even point, at a guess, is somewhere around 400 mg/week, or perhaps more.

I have read somewhere that testosterone taken in conjunction with finasteride (Proscar or Propecia) will have minimal effects on MPB. I also understand that Test. is about twice as strong as Deca.

It’s a little more complex than giving a single number to describe the difference.

At the androgen receptor (AR), actually nandrolone is more potent (effective per milligram) than testosterone is. But not all muscle-building results are via the androgen receptor.

Testosterone, or testosterone in combination with its metabolites which include DHT, androstanediol, and androstenediol, presumably is a complete anabolic which is effective in all means of androgenic stimulation of muscle growth. Nandrolone apparently works well via the AR, yet milligram for milligram when used alone seems less effective than testosterone. I can only account for that by concluding that it is not very effective in non-AR mediated androgenic mechanisms of muscle growth.

So in some circumstances you might not find that “half as effective” rule to be valid. For example, if you were using 50 mg/day of Dianabol, I’d expect that adding 400 mg/week Deca would be at least as effective and perhaps moreso than adding 400 mg/week of testosterone. This would be because the non-AR mediated mechanisms of growth are already pretty well taken care of by the Dianabol, and adding in the potent AR agonist properties of the Deca will greatly help the Dianabol, which is weak in that regard.

But back to your first point: It’s true that finasteride greatly reduces the adverse effect of testosterone on the hair.

My question is: Would 200mgs a week of Test and 1mg a day of Finesteride be as easy on the scalp as 400mgs a week of Deca?

As a guess? Yes, or close.

And, which cycle would be more effective for putting on muscle mass?

Neither is a very good cycle. I don’t know which is better. I’d guess the Deca cycle but it’s six of one, half a dozen of the other. But throw in some Dianabol, even just 20 mg/day, and it’s a lock that the Deca cycle would be better than the 200 mg/week testosterone cycle: much better.

One more question if I may. If I do a Deca only cycle and take Clomid along with it at 50 mgs a day what do I do after the cycle to help bring the natural Test back? Keep taking the Clomid? And at what dosage.

Thanks Bill, I really appreciate your suggestions.

Joel

Actually, there is no real reason to take Clomid while on a Deca-only cycle.. If Dianabol were added, then 1 mg Clomid per 1 mg Dianabol is definitely sufficient for antigyno purposes, and really ½ mg Clomid per 1 mg Dianabol is probably sufficient. And if one is susceptible to gyno from Deca, no amount of Clomid will block that anyway. Winstrol might.

After the cycle, Clomid will indeed be a good idea to help restore testosterone levels.

Feedback On 2 On / 4 Off Use of Testosterone Enanthate

Dear Mr. Roberts,

I was the guy who wrote to you asking you about taking 500mg of Sustanon on day 1, then considering himself “on” for the next 2 weeks. Anyhow, I recently took 600mg of Test Enanthate. I took this dosage on day 1, then considered myself “on” for the next 2 weeks. My result, by day 11 of the cycle, was a total gain of 7 pounds. Additionally, I have been taking Proscar, the whole 5mg, to combat my current thinning hair. The Proscar prevented the acne I would have had, like in the past when I took Sustanon without Proscar. I just thought you would like to know my results, since you said the 500mg of Sustanon would probably not cause much growth.

Thanks for your time, and thank you for responding to my previous question.

Neal

Thanks, Neal!

That sounds pretty good. I’d tend to expect though that a few of those pounds will disappear once androgen levels return to normal. This would be from loss of retained water, including water retained inside the muscles.

But still, let’s say you wind up three or four pounds ahead. There are many advanced natural trainers who have not gained that much in their entire last year of training, or have gained only approximately that. So this is a good result for two weeks, thought not as dramatic as what can achieve when using more!

Given the choice of steroid, I think you used the right dose, since the half-life of testosterone enanthate is too long to allow high dose use in a 2 week cycle.

Interactions of AAS and Corticosteroids

Mr. Roberts,

I have just recently started to use AAS and previous to that I had suffered a lower back injury while squatting. I am only twenty years old and want to clear this injury up while I am young. It is very dehabilitating and I am in need of an orthopedic. The problem is I don’t want them to (a) Notice the elevated T in my blood stream, (b) prescribe me something that might interact with the AAS.

Some friends have told me of negative interactions between cortisone and AAS. Yet cortisone has also been decribed to me as a possible solution to my problem. Can you suggest anything?

David

With elevated testosterone levels, you would probably need slightly higher levels of corticosteroids to get the same therapeutic activity. And the corticosteroids will somewhat interfere with muscle building, but so be it. Better to be healed of your injury if possible.

I don’t see any reason why the doctor would have your testosterone levels checked when treating you for this condition, so perhaps there is no reason to worry about that.

It’s a judgment call on whether you should inform your doctor of the testosterone use. Medically, you should. Legally, there is no reason why not: he will not report you to anyone. From the personal point of view, some doctors of course would give you a hard time, or demand that you must stop using anabolic steroids. Perhaps the thing to do is to meekly agree, and then at a later appointment a few weeks later, tell him how it seemed that your condition got worse as the anabolic steroids left your system, so you took another injection and quickly felt better, and so you still have elevated testosterone levels.

I personally would take that approach rather than try to keep medically relevant information from the physician.

Information Source for Beginning Female Bodybuilder

I am a 24 year-old female in the Army and interested in bodybuilding? Where do I begin? I am 72″ and weigh close to 190 pounds. Your help would be greatly appreciated. I just need to know where or who I can ask about what exercises I should do, etc. Thank you for your time.

Sonja

I’d suggest Krista Scott-Dixon’s Women’s Weightlifting.

A good book choice would be “Gold’s Gym Mass Building Training and Nutrition System,” available at Amazon.com and probably your local bookstore. It isn’t geared specifically to women but the training and nutrition principles are the same.

I’d also make sure to read Lyle McDonald’s articles and Q & A’s on Mesomorphosis. The cyclical ketogenic diet may not be for you: perhaps you would do better with the isocaloric diet (approximately equal calories of protein, carbohydrates, and fat). But he has many other good points that will apply to you, especially concerning the fact that you must not let calories drop too low. 12 calories per lb of lean bodyweight (you can use your target weight as the lean body weight figures) is as low as you should go.

And don’t try to reduce fat to too low a level. Actually, keeping fat up to about 30% of total calories is probably best.

Anabolic Steroids and Sexual Performance

Bill,

I would like to know what type of steroid I could use and still perform sexually. Thanks.

Robert

Dianabol, Anadrol®, and Winstrol seem to be pro-sexual. Testosterone also is, unless estrogen levels are allowed to get too high, which is often seen with high dose testosterone use. High dose Anadrol use also can be counterproductive.

This isn’t to say that steroids like Primobolan, oxandrolone, etc. will impair performance because generally they will not. Deca often does, however.

None of this is scientific: only what has been informally observed.

Improving On a Dianabol Cycle

Dear Mr Roberts,

Thank you so much for your response to my letter a few months back. I understand there is now a charge for your expertise, so please can you try to answer this in the column.

Finally got to it! There’s been a big backlog.

Actually I still try to answer personally as many questions as I can from the column, including letters that aren’t included in the column. This month, I finally decided to give up (sorry!) on the old ones and try to answer the new ones. I mean, there were still unanswered ones from March!

So if I have not answered anyone’s question, well, we’re starting fresh again, and if an answer would still be of use, indeed I will try to answer it if you send it again. Since there are several hundred letters each month, though, I may wind up falling behind again though. But at least there will be a reasonable chance!

Back to Gavin’s letter….

I am in the middle of a course of 200 Dianabol and have seen decent gains. What I want is to go on a course that will really add a lot of size and bulk but my ambition is not to compete but to be what I consider perfect. I used to be very thin and have worked hard to gain mass. I would ideally like to weigh around 20 kg more, ripped, although I know there are no overnight miracles without serious consequences involved.

I was thinking something along the lines of 200 Dianabol, test cyp, and Winstrol. Do you think that would acheive the goal and if so in what doses should they be taken and how should they be cycled. Obviously Clomid would be needed, please advise of this too

Also, is oral Winstrol effective or should I go with injectable ?

Please could you also give me some indication as to how damaging all these drugs are especially to the liver.

Thank you so much sir, I am sorry to waste your time with so many questions but I feel you are the only person whose answers I can trust.

Gavin

The Dianabol is a good starting point. 200 of them is enough for 20 mg/day for 50 days, or about 7 weeks.

Where this is lacking is that Dianabol is not particularly effective at the androgen receptor (AR). Two good choices to cover this would be Deca or Primo, either at 400 mg/week.

Testosterone can also do the job though with more side effects, and it actually is not as effective per milligram at the AR as either Deca or Primo. (That, however, can be solved simply by using more.)

Winstrol also is not very effective at the AR so it wouldn’t address this weak point of Dianabol. However it is indeed worthwhile, and does work well orally, but substantial doses are needed: at least 50 mg/day to notice much effect.

So if you were to use the Deca/Dianabol or Primo/Dianabol stack, certainly in time you could achieve your goal.

These drugs are not particularly hard on the liver provided one does not stay on them year-round, and even then are really not so bad.

Dianabol Plus Oxandrolone?

Bill,

I have 150 29 mg dbol caps (they’re real) and 200-300 oxandrolone 2.5mg tabs. 20 Clomid also. Please give me some advice on how to take this stuff. Thanks.

Stan

29 milligram Dianabol? Weird.

Anyway, I’d split the tabs into halves, and take four halves per day. So this would last 75 days total, or almost 11 weeks.

Even if you have 300 oxandrolone tablets, this is still only about 1/6 as much oxandrolone as you have Dianabol. That won’t do much extra.

Eleven weeks is a pretty long cycle and might give difficulties in recovery if you didn’t use any tricks.

The trick you could use would be to divide the dose of your orals into four times per day for two weeks, then take the entire day’s dose at once on arising for two weeks, then go back to dividing the dose for two weeks, etc. This will allow LH production to return every two weeks and recovery at the end of the cycle should be easy.

The fact that you will grow less rapidly in the weeks that the dose is taken entirely in the morning is I think nearly irrelevant: the pauses in growth will allow faster growth in the following weeks which will nearly or perhaps entirely make up for it. Furthermore, you’ll have less losses at the end of the cycle due to the faster recovery enabled by this method.

This rotation method would have the 9^th and 10^th weeks having dosing only in the morning, and I’d continue that for week 11, but add in Clomid at that time, taking 6 Clomids in six divided doses on the first day of that week. After that, one Clomid per day.

Reference For Clomid Use?

Dear Bill:

My doctor asked me to provide him with some reference to my use of Clomid for restoring endogenous testosterone production at the end of a testosterone replacement cycle. Apparently he, like many other doctors, is unaware of its use outside of fertility stimulation for females. Could you possibly refer me to such an article? I remember a year or more ago there was such an article on the (I think) Meso-Rx site, but I can’t find it anymore. Your help would be appreciated.

Mike

There is no reference for that specific use, but there is one for increasing testosterone levels in overtrained runners:

Fertil-Steril. 1997 Apr; 67(4): 783-5. Idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in a male runner is reversed by clomiphene citrate

Norandros And Inhibition?

Bill,

I just have read your article “Prohormones of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids (AAS)” and found it very informative. To me the article directly raises the question, if increased nortestosterone (nandrolone) levels also have a negative effect on the natural testosterone production.

Enno

Yes, because nandrolone, like testosterone, activates the androgen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary, and thereby inhibits production of LH. This results in decreased testosterone production.

Hair Loss, Propecia, Deca, and Primo

Bill,

Using Propecia with Deca at 300mg a week the same for Primo, will this increase my hair loss. Also will this effect my sperm level, because I do want to have kids one day.

Propecia makes no difference with Primo, but actually worsens the effect of Deca. Without Propecia, Deca is easier on the hair than Primo. With Propecia it is probably about the same.

Neither, if used for reasonable length cycles with off times between cycles, is likely to cause long term fertility problems.

I have read different information on the net. Some say Primo is better than Deca because Primo is lower in androgens. I only know what I have read on the net. Please explain to me why deca is better than primo. DESPERATE FOR THE TRUTH.

Pat

Because Deca, unlike Primo, is converted in the scalp to a less active androgen, DHN. Primo remains unchanged and is therefore full-strength in the scalp.

By the way, Deca and Primo each contain only one steroid. Neither contains a mix of active ingredients. It is not correct to say that either is “lower in androgens.” I know that other sites on the Net say this but it is not right. Neither contains androgens: each of them is itself an androgen.

HCG vs. Clomid

Bill,

I just read your Meso-Rx article [“Antiestrogens“]. I have a question though on Clomid vs HCG. Is Clomid more or less effective in restoring test levels than is HCG. Also, since HCG increases estrogen levels is it advisable to use Clomid at the same time as HCG to prevent gyno, or would using both together cause problems.

John

Yes, it’s a good idea to use both together, for the reason you state.

One can’t say whether one is more or less effective because they do different things. HCG directly stimulates the testicles to grow (if atrophied) and to produce testosterone, while Clomid blocks the inhibitory action of estrogen on the hypothalamus and pituitary. Two totally different things. Clomid addresses the root of the problem while HCG provides a temporary workaround. They work in different areas and different ways.

Sexual Effects of Norandrostenediol

Bill,

Recently, I bought a 20 gram bulk order of Norandrostendiol. I am worried now that there exists the risk of impotence, which might aggravate my girlfriend and me a bit. Is this a side effect that only occurs with the norandrostene products or also with the norandrostendiol steroid as well? If so, what can I take in conjuction to keep this problem from occuring?

Tom

Any adverse effect on sexual performance, if any, will be over within hours of discontinuing use of the prohormone, so if a problem develops, which it probably won’t, it’s easily enough solved.