Ask Patrick Arnold #1

Dear Patrick,

I read about this new company called Synthrax Innovations. The owner, Derek Cornelius, is taking credit for all the supplements I thought you invented. How can he get away with that? So, now I’m confused. Who REALLY discovered all those cool supplements like androdiol, norandrodiol and ipriflavone?

That Derek Cornelius is really a character let me tell you. My first contact with him was an angry e-mail claiming that he discovered chrysin and that I deserved no credit for it even though I was the person who compiled a vast amount of research and then introduced it to Dan Duchaine, Muscle Media etc. I suppose since the idea existed in his mind or he had run across an article on it once before he feels I “ripped him off”. So it did not take long for me to realize the guy was a loony.

As far as androstenedione goes, I think not even Derek has the balls to challenge me on the fact that I discovered it and introduced the idea. However, Derek has spread the misconception that HE in fact introduced the idea of norandrostenedione which is completely false. The first mention in public of norandrostenedione was by Dan Duchaine in MM2K. And Dan will admit that it was I that disclosed the facts about norandrostenedione to him for that article. Credit IS due however to Derek for working to be the first one to come up with a source for norandrostenedione and to pioneer its sale at a time when I was unsure what the legal ramifications would be.

I do not think Derek ever claimed to discover Ipriflavone. A man in England named Brian Batcheldor does however and perhaps he did (independently of me) but it was long after I had publicly disclosed the stuff that he came around with this claim. I first started doing research on Ipriflavone back in 1992-3. It was then in 1995 that I attempted a partnership with Bruce Kneller and Dan Duchaine by introducing Ipriflavone to them and claiming that I had the ability to manufacture it at a reasonable cost. Bruce dropped out of the deal and then sneakily went ahead to write an article about the stuff (using the research I revealed to him) in Musclemag International a couple of months later claiming he had discovered it. Such is what I have to put up with all the time. Also with androdiol (4-androstenediol), I don’t think anyone disputes the fact that it is totally my discovery and that I am the first and foremost manufacturer of this supplement. Derek does seem to trash the stuff alot though, I suppose since he has not yet been able to find a reputable source.

The introduction of 5-androstenediol to the marketplace gets all Derek’s credit. It is a common steroid (major DHEA metabolite) that I had known about before but never considered selling for two reasons:

1) It appeared to be a controlled substance, and
2) Overwhelming evidence suggests it is highly estrogenic.

Derek can have this one for himself and best of luck to him because I believe it to be a poor product.

With norandrodiol (19-norandrostenediol) it REALLY gets interesting. I introduced on m.f.w. that it was to be my next product. It seems I had pushed some serious buttons with Derek (and also his new “partner” Bruce Kneller) when I announced this. Derek and Bruce posted long messages about how I cannot sell this and I will go to jail and that they had talked to the DEA, etc. Derek got extremely irate accusing me of somehow (perhaps telepathically) stealing the idea from him. What I came to find out from Derek’s ex-partners at Mass Quantities (who incidently booted him for being an asshole) was that Derek had been investigating this compound for a while and was banking on it to be his “claim to fame”. Well boo-hoo Derek, you didn’t speak up fast enough and now I win again. Not only that but I am manufacturing the stuff and already selling it while he and others are waiting around for some shipments of the stuff from China that may arrive sometime in the 21st Century.

Dear Pat,

I used to be a subscriber to Muscle Media, you know, when it was actually good. But now that Duchaine and Poliquin are ready to leave, it has no informative value whatsoever. Now, I’m looking for another cool bodybuilding magazine to read. What about “Testosterone: Muscle with Attitude”? This is the venture by T.C. Luoma & Charles Poliquin. Isn’t T.C. the reason Muscle Media rocked in the past?

T.C. added personality to the magazine. The reason why it “rocked” is because back then it felt free to discuss the drug issues and to feature more hardcore concepts. It was back when HMB was introduced that it started to become a blatant EAS advertising medium and less of an objective source of useful information. Still it was better than the other magazines (which says very little). However, when T.C. was replaced and Bill Phillips decided to chase the sissy market, the bodybuilding community support for the magazine dropped enormously. I don’t know what the future of EAS or MM is now.

“Testosterone” magazine seems to capture some of the old MM2K magic; however I don’t see any one on their editorial staff (besides Poliquin) with any real expertise to offer. T.C. certainly is no expert on nutrition, training, drugs etc. I also get a feeling that they are pushing their run of the mill supplement line a bit too much, with far too much exaggeration, misinformation, and hype. However, there does seem to be hope for them and it is probably too early to either condemn or praise the magazine completely.

Dear Pat,

What about Peak Training Journal? Do you think they will overcome their distribution problems of the past? Also, I heard they’re owned by Met-Rx. Is this true?

First of all they are not owned by Met-Rx. The deal is pretty simple; in exchange for packaging each PEAK issue in a polywrapped bag with a separate Met-Rx promotional brochure/info. piece, Met-Rx will take care of distribution of PEAK by including it in their normal shipments of their supplements to their stores. Met-Rx will have NO ads in PEAK itself and people have the option to throw out the Met-Rx brochure and not be bothered by it. This is hardly an EAS/MM2K type of arrangment.

PEAK is the most promising of the magazines out there because of their outstanding editorial staff. However, the magazine is quite crude and raw at this point and time and alot of work is going to have to go into sprucing it up. I hope editor Steve Colescott is up to the task.

Dear Pat,

What about your association with Met-Rx and Scott Connelly? Does this mean you’ll stop bashing the nutritional supplement industry and their outrageous supplement claims?

My association with Met-Rx and Scott Connelly as of today is not fully established. However it appears that my company (Seymour Bio-Organics) will be an exclusive manufacturer of the supplements that will go into their new offshoot supplement company “Substrate Solutions”. I will supply them with supplement ideas and in most cases also manufacture the supplements themselves for them as an exclusive vendor.

As far as criticizing stupidity in this industry I couldn’t stop myself if I tried.

Why are you working with Met-Rx? Aren’t they just another big supplement company making bullshit claims for ineffective products? How exactly are they different from your “friends” at EAS?

My partner (in Illinois) and I had the ability to come up with novel and effective supplement ideas and to manufacturer them on a large scale. What we had no ability to do was to market and distribute. There was no option but for us to find someone who could provide this service. Hooking up with Met-Rx was a stroke of luck.

As far as Met-Rx being just like the other companies making bullshit claims etc., just let me say I have met with people from many of the top supplement companies and none of them compared in intelligence and vision that they have. I know they have had some silly advertisements for their HMB/Met-Rx stuff in the past. However of all the choices of supplement marketers and distributors that my company could have teamed up with they are by far the best (or least of all evils depending on your perspective).

How are they different from my “friends” at EAS? By about 100 points of I.Q. and the ability to relate to others in a cordial and easy going manner (as opposed to arrogance and paranoia).

Dear Pat,

You claim androdiol is much more effective than androstene? Then, why are none of the big supplement companies selling it? Only the smaller ones like Osmo & GEN? From what I’ve read in Muscle Media, it seems Andro 6 is better anyway – with all those synergistic ingredients in it.

That last part was a joke, right? Anyway the answer to why none of the other companies are selling it is a mystery to me. I think it has to do with most companies waiting until a demand has been established for something before they decide to have the balls to jump in with it. What happened with androstenedione was Dan Duchaine wrote about it in MM2K and the demand for OSMO Androstene 50 skyrocketed. That is when all the other companies quickly jumped on the bandwagon.

The small companies that are selling it now cannot afford to launch an effective advertising campaign so by and large no one knows what the stuff is or how it REALLY does kick androstenedione’s ass. I fully anticipate when Substrate Solutions comes out with their androdiol product, backed up by recent clinical study data showing phenomenal improvement over androstenedione, that other companies will be tripping over their feet to get the stuff out there.

Don’t get me started on Andro-6. I have trashed that before in detail. If anyone is interested they can read what I said at http://web.archive.org/web/20010121123300/http://www.qfac.com/qfac-dirt/whyandro.html.

Dear Pat,

I read about a new supplement that Poliquin was talking about in Testosterone.net. It is supposed to be a much better anti-aromatase supplement than chrysin. What do you think of this breakthrough supplement?

That supplement is Ipriflavone. Ipriflavone has never been demonstrated to have anti-aromatase activity. This is a ludicrous claim on their part. In fact Ipriflavone has been shown repeatedly to have no noticeable effects on sex hormones.

Dear Patrick,

Are you going to sell ipriflavone? Isn’t it sold as a prescription drug for osteoporosis in Europe? How can you sell a supplement that requires a script in other countries – isn’t that illegal?

We are not going to sell Ipriflavone right away. As far as it being prescription in other countries I would imagine it is just OTC there. Besides it does not matter because it has no drug status in this country and according to the guidlines of DHSEA it can be sold as a supplement because it is naturally occuring (though I think someone is mistaken on that).

Don’t these osteoporosis drugs like Osteofix (Ipriflavone) all work through estrogenic action? How then, does ipriflavone exert its supposedly anabolic effects?

Ipriflavone does not work through estrogenic action. The mechanism of its anabolic effects is not known. As far as its effects on bone it seems to potentiate the positive effects of estrogen.

Dear Pat,

Everyone on the internet is hyping norandrostenediol – they say it will really be like a legal version of deca durabolin. I’ve heard this “feels like Deca” bullshit before – when HMB came out, I wasted 200 bucks on the stuff and got zippo effects! Will norandrodiol be worth it for me – I don’t want to waste my money again!

What internet you have been reading I don’t know. If it is mfw then you are way off base because I have never hyped the stuff in such a manner. Perhaps you were reading something Derek Cornelius wrote on another board; that sounds like his style. How can I say that it will be worth it for you? So many factors come into play. All I can say is that it will be superior to norandrostenedione as a nandrolone precursor and if norandrostene worked for you then norandrodiol may work even better.

How can you claim that androstene and androdiol increase muscle mass when there is NO research on this? At least Twinlabs based their claims for their DHEA formula on hundreds of research studies. And DHEA is not supposed to adversely affect your own hormonal production like all these testosterone precursors. Right?

What I can say is that you are mistaken that I ever said these precursors have been proven to increase muscle mass. I am glad you ask this because it gives me the opportunity to point out that I have from day 1 avoided this claim. I have only made statements concerning the effect of these precursors on increasing concentrations of active anabolic hormones in the body. There is convincing evidence that these precursors do that and most would not argue with that. Knowing this one can deduce that a possible anabolic effect may be seen when these are consumed. Until this is proven in a controlled study that claim should be avoided.

Twinlabs quotes only ONE study showing their formula increases testosterone, and this was done on patients with a disorder in which they produce NO steroid hormones at all. Their enzymes are clearly screwed up and geared to metabolize whatever circulates into the most active compounds at a high rate. Even so the increases were quite insignificant.

For a comaparison lets look at a study on normal men. One that uses 32 times the daily recommended dosage (1600mg. vs. 50mg) per day for 28 days. The researchers stated “serum total testosterone, free testosterone, and SHBG did not change” (JCEM, 66(1) 57-67).

I would not argue that 50mg. a day of DHEA disrupts the sex hormone production as Twinlabs claims. If it doesn’t work at all (which the preceeding reference indisputably demonstrates) then why would you expect it to exhibit a possible side effect?

Dear Pat,

With all the hormonal precursors available, what is the ideal way to take them? Individually or stacked? With meals or on an empty stomach? Divided or single daily doses? I’m confused with all the different advice and different precursors offered!

It is quite confusing I know. My recommendation from what I know at this point would be the following. Take only the diol products, and take them with meals throughout the day. Experiment with doses to find out what is effective for yourself. At this point I am skeptical if there is any synergism between the diones and the diols, and knowing how much more potent the diols are I simply say spend your money on them.