Ask Patrick Arnold #3

Dear Pat,

I have been told that Substrate Solution’s Norandrostenediol is the ineffective 19Nor-5androstene-3, 17Diol version and not the 19Nor-4 androstene-3, 17Diol version. Is this true?

Answer:

You have it backwards. Substrate Solution’s norandrostenediol is the delta-4 version, the good and proven effective compound. I supervise the production of Substrate’s norandrodiol and I can vouch that it is of the highest purity and potency of any norandrostenediol available on the market today.

Dear Patrick,

If someone were to take norandrostenediol with norandrostenedione, would it increase the amount of nandrolone in the body? Do they use the same enzyme? Is it true that nandrolone stays at the receptor for 4 days?

Answer:

Both norandrostenediol and norandrostenedione, taken separately or together, will raise the amount of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) in the bloodstream. These two precursors utilize different enzymes in the process of their conversions so theoretically they should make a good stack. The rumor about nandrolone staying at the receptor for 4 days is completely ludicrous and whoever said this obviously has a poor understanding of biology. Nandrolone should have a lifetime in the bloodstream similar to testosterone.

Dear Pat

I have a question pertaining 19nor-androstenediol: Is this product available with both versions – 4ad, 5ad? In you opinion, which would you say is better? Also, are there any ways or products that you would suggest stacking in conjunction with these supplements to increase the possibility of effect? I would value your opinions, descriptions, or any findings you would care to share.

Answer:

19-norandrostenediol is available in two forms. First is the delta-4 (delta “X” refers to the position of a double bond on the steroid backbone) version also known as norandrodiol or Bolandiol. This version is the one which has ample scientific literature confirming its biological (anabolic) activity and is also the version which was once sold in foreign countries as an anabolic steroid.

The other form is the delta-5 version. The delta-5 is a mystery compound, there is no evidence in the literature of any biological activity for this stuff. I have tried to get the sellers of this compound to provide me with some proof of its efficacy but they would not respond. I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone ever bothered to have this stuff made.

I would recommend stacking the delta-4 (norandrodiol) version with a testosterone precursor like androstenedione or better yet androdiol. That way you get the benefits of a strong androgenic component to complement the mostly anabolic norandrodiol.

Dear Patrick,

I would like to ask you how to use GrowthHormone (GH) and Insulin. I’ve heard that I can make great progress with these products, but my knowledge is not enough to use it properly. They advised me to use 4-8 IU of GH a day (somatrophine). How much insulin do I have to use with this many IU’s of GH? My current bodyweight is 242 lbs.

Answer:

I would advise you not to use insulin at all as it is a potentially dangerous compound for non-diabetics to fool around with. However I can tell you what I know about its usage in conjunction with GH for bodybuilding purposes. A daily dosage for Humulin R in combination with the dosage of GH you mention would be 10 to 20 units a day. The GH is best taken about 30 minutes to an hour after the shot of Humulin R; this is so the GH reaches your bloodstream at the same time that the insulin is peaking so the IGF-1 response is maximized.

Dear Pat,

I came across an article from “USA Today” on an internet search. The article said that the US Olympic Committee asked the FBI to investigate Price Power’s advertisement of the “banned steriod androstenedione”. My concern is that this is the first step to banning all pro-hormones from over the counter use. Has the FDA issued an opinion regarding androstenedione, androstenediol, 19-norandrostenedione and 19-noranrdostenediol? The article can be found at: http://web.archive.org/web/20010210190436/http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctb757.htm

Thank-you

Answer:

I think what happened was the FBI investigated and then found out that the FDA has no prohibitive policy against androstenedione and the matter was put to rest. The FDA has no opinion that I know of on any of the hormone precursors. According to the DSHE act these products should be legal for sale unless the FDA can prove them unsafe for consumption, and since androgenic steroids really have no acute adverse affects (although they do have chronic adverse affects) it would be almost impossible for the FDA to show any time soon that these products are dangerous.

Dear Pat,

You wouldn’t know real science if it fell out of the sky and landed on your head. I guess the over 2000 physicians dispensing PRO-hGH are all idiots and you’re the only smart person on earth. Must be lonely at the top. There’s nobody developing sports performance products with credentials even close to those of James Jamieson, the developer and patent holder of PRO-hGH. He holds over 170 patents in medicine and Nutraceuticals, especially in delivery systems. He developed “patch” technology which is used by many pharmaceutical companies now. He doesn’t release a product unless it works. Many clinical studies verified PRO-hGH before its release. The product works, it works better by far than any other similar product, so get over it.

Answer:

This letter is from a representative of VesPro, the company that distributes the supposed GH increaser Pro-hGH. It is in response to a posting I made on mfw in which I reported the results of an independent physicians findings that the product was ineffective in raising blood levels of GH and IGF-1.

This person’s only recourse is to reiterate the credentials of the physician who invented the product. Well I have news for you, even those with impressive credentials can do dishonest things. And it appears to me that something very sleazy and dishonest is going on with this product.

The physicians claim that they have discovered a natural GHRP (growth hormone releasing peptide) but all the credible literature to date claims that the natural ligand for the GHRP receptor has yet to be identified. They say this natural GHRP is the core ingredient of their product yet they do not list it in the ingredient label and they do not reveal its amino acid sequence. Another mystery is why (if they are truly scientists) did they never publish their findings after the “discovery” of this NGHRP, which by the way would be a major breakthrough in the field of endocrinology. Still another mystery is why they did not try to license their findings to the pharmaceutical industry where they could have made infinitely more money than the supplement industry. These people talk about “clinical studies” but strangely enough none of these have ever been published in any reputable peer reviewed scientific journals.

This man is right, I have nowhere near the credentials of this mysterious Dr. Jamieson (funny how I just did a US patent search on his name and came up with 0 hits) but I do have a nose on my face with which I can smell rats.

Mr. Arnold,

I was intrigued by what you said about DHT increasing aggressiveness and possibly having an anabolic effect. I am a 22-year-old College Wrestler, and a 2x All-American (3rd in Nation). I have recently started taking Propecia to stop hair loss. So would your advice be to quit taking the Propecia when the season starts (I need all the aggressiveness I can get in this sport) or to even quit taking it altogether until my athletic career is over? Also, how likely is Androstenediol to cause more hair loss compared to 5-AD?

Finally, will taking these prohormones make me flunk an NCAA drug test? If so, how long to I need to quit taking them before I am tested? Thanks Patrick.

Justin K

Answer:

I would strongly recommend stopping the Propecia for the duration of the wrestling season to optimize androgenic CNS effects. When the season is over you may resume the Propecia if you feel it is needed to combat your balding problems.

4-androstenediol is a much better precursor to testosterone than 5-Androstenediol so it should thereby increase DHT levels to a higher extent and exacerbate hair loss more.

Testosterone precursors will not (well, should not) make you flunk a drug test if discontinued 48 hours prior to testing. 19-Nortestosterone precursors should always be avoided for anyone subject to doping testing.

Dear Patrick,

Hello I love your articles though I hardly understand them are there any books on these prohormones that you talk about that I can read to educate My self on these matters??? I want to buy your Supplements from Substrate Solutions but I have a question or two I hope you can help me with.

1. Which is the most Powerful stack you offer???
2. Can I take saw Palmetto Berry extract to prevent DHT from enlarging my prostate or causing hair loss and how much??? Plus who makes a good brand of Saw Palmetto berry extract ???
3. I’m concerned about testosterone elevations increasing estrogen production. You mentioned chrysin which I hear doesn’t work in humans. I been asking around about Ipriflavone and people look at me like I’m nuts. What is it and who sells it and where can I get it??? Please reply – I really need help on this. Thanks for your time and keep up the great work :-)

Answer:

There really aren’t any books on prohormones. All I learned on the subject came from journals and highly technical biochemistry books. IMO the strongest product that Substrate Solutions offers is the Diol Stack.

You can take Saw Palmetto to protect your prostate and possibly reduce hair loss however be aware that because it is anti-androgenic in nature the stuff may cut into your gains.

I did not say that Chrysin absolutely did not work in humans, rather I said that in-vivo efficacy has never been proven and that I suspect that if it does work in humans the dosage would be prohibitively high.

Ipriflavone, despite the misinformation that has been spread about it, is not an anti-estrogenic compound. Rather it is an isoflavone derivative with no hormonal activity that exhibits anabolic activity on bone and possibly muscle.

Dear Patrick:

I’ve heard a lot about Pump ‘n Pose (quite a few different stories) and I’m not sure what to believe. Could you please tell me what it does and how it’s taken? Obviously for $400 it is more than an oil you put on and it gives you a pump for a little while. Thank you for your prompt response!

Answer:

Pump’n Pose, also known as Synthol, is an injectable oil preparation with the intended use for temporarily swelling up individual muscle groups (i.e. biceps, calves). A year or so ago Dan Duchaine sent me a sample of this stuff and I had it tested. The results showed that this esoteric mystery liquid was nothing but ordinary MCT oil (also contains lidocaine and a bit of alcohol). Obviously someone has a HUGE profit margin if they are bottling 100cc’s of MCT oil and retailing it for $400.

If you are adamant on experimenting with Synthol then I would recommend buying some MCT oil (Captri from Parillo is fine) and injecting it directly. Say for instance 5cc’s in each bicep. That way you will have satisfied your curiosity and not drained your bank account in the process.

Dear Pat,

I just read where you said “I am skeptical if there is any synergism between the diones and the diols, and knowing how much more potent the diols are I simply say spend your money on them.” What is a ‘diol’ and what is a ‘dione’ …please explain . I really would appreciate an explanation from you, since I have just become acquainted with your works and writings. Thank you very much!—-Mhayes

Answer:

The terms diol and dione are chemical terms that refer to certain structural characteristics of a molecule. Specifically diol means the molecule has two hydroxyl groups (di=two, ol=hydroxyl). The term dione means the molecule has two ketone groups (di=two, one=ketone).

Probably the most important structural characteristic of active androgens is the 17ß-hydroxyl group. This group is present on the diols but not on the diones and this explains why the diols display a significant degree of intrinsic (before conversion) activity while the diones do not.