Counteracting Prednisone with Prohormones?
I’m 17, and have had a condition called ulcerative colitis (brother/sister to Crohn’s) for approximately 6 months. I’m currently taking a large oral dose of prednisone (catabolic cortisol steroid), which sucks. I’m considering going on some kind of Nor stack (probably diol) to try to counteract the catabolic properties of prednisone. I’m curious if anyone else has done or heard of someone doing the same thing? I would do it in a heartbeat if I was older, but the fact that I’m 17 and that I’m stupid in this respect, doesn’t help. Does anyone know if it blocks certain prednisone receptors? I don’t want the Prednisone to stop doing its job (the benefits) I just want to try to lower the catabolic side of it. Any help is appreciated.. Thanks.
Christ you do not want to block the receptors for prednisone. If you did then what would be the point of the prednisone. Do not worry, anabolic steroids do not have a binding affinity to corticosteroid receptors of any biologically significant degree. Don’t have the reference handy but unless you want to take methyltrienolone I think you are pretty safe here.
It is a good thing that you are taking anabolic drugs to counteract the catabolism of the coricosteroids without interfering with their anti-inflammatory effects. A lot of research was done in the past that showed anabolic steroids, taken in conjunction with corticosteroids, did not interfere with the desired therapeutic effects and yet they did significantly mitigate (though not completely eliminate) the undesired protein catabolic effects.
Growth Hormone and IGF-1 have also been shown to be beneficial in combating corticoid wasting.
It is important to remember that none of these agents BLOCK cortisol per se (as has been incorrectly hypothesized by certain leap before they jump fool-rus), instead they work to antagonize some of the metabolic effects that cortisol stimulates. These metabolic effects concern protein balance and fortunately not the prostaglandin mediated anti-inflammatory activity. (The AI effects of corticoids does involve prostaglandins, doesn’t it?)
Difference Between Clomiphene and Tamoxifen
Someone said I could take Clomid for gyno. I thought Clomid was just for raising LH by stimulating the HPTA and tamoxifen was for gyno. What gives?
Clomid is actually an anti-estrogen related chemically to tamoxifen Rob. And its HPTA stimulatory action is probably a function of its blocking estrogen receptors at the hypothalmus. It was never marketed as such though but it could have been. That’s OK Pete, we will let you slide on this one, its one of those things where you got to be a pharmaceutical reference book and library buff to be familiar with.
BTW the partial estrogen (or is it full anti-estrogen) droloxifene has a patent on it for elevation of testosterone levels. However I think that when people elevate their test levels with these anti-estrogens alone they don’t find the effects they should. I believe that’s cuz some of testosterone’s action requires a certain quantity of simultaneous estrogen. For instance, you eliminate estrogen and your growth hormone levels can take a nose dive.
Aromatase Inhibitors vs. Anti-estrogens
How do aromatase inhibitors compare with the receptor anti-estrogens?
Aromatase inhibitors are probably superior to both in regards to overall effects on anabolic hormones. Nolvadex and Clomid both have estrogen agonist effects on the liver and therefore serve to decrease serum IGF-1 blood levels (most of which is of hepatic origin). They may also have the effect of increasing SHBG which most people consider a negative though mad scientist MDGADPC and the ever more esoteric Dan Duchaine have presented arguments otherwise (I still am in the former camp).
Cytadren (and other aromatase inhibitors I would assume as well) have no estrogenic activity and therefore one actually sees a net rise in IGF-1 levels in women that take it compared to Nolvadex and some other receptor antagonist that show net decreases.
Of course the soon to be available pure anti-estrogens are still an unknown.
Tribulus, LH, and Testosterone
Dear Pat,
I am doing my masters’ thesis on the effects tribulus terrestris has on LH and testosterone levels in the human body. However, my efforts to find relevant literature (a must for a lit review in a thesis) is frustrating, to say the least. All the information I found was done in Bulgaria in the early 1980’s, and most of it is in Bulgarian, which I don’t read. If you have any professional advice for me, I’m all ears.
Joe, California State University, Chico
Joe, I feel your pain. I myself have done literature searches of terrestris extract and found very little information except for things such as increased fertility and sexual activity in animals.
I hear from the grapevine though that a reputable researcher is going to perform a study using the Sopharma brand “Tribestan” to try to duplicate the positive results on LH and testosterone that the makers claim in their unpublished data.
So be patient and you may have to find another thesis subject.
Applying AndrosteDERM
I just bought some AndrosteDERM. Based on a big libido increase after trying it I think it must be working well. The problem I have with it is they want you to rub it on the inside of your thighs and I lack the hair free area to put it on lightly as they say. (They say all hairy areas are a no no.) I would like to be able to put it on another area like, lets say, the inside of my forearms. That area is not hairy and seems to be thin skinned (their criteria). Please tell me if this is good or where I should rub this stuff.
Your forearms would be good but do not offer much surface area. Look mister, if you want to be serious about something you have to make some sacrifices. God forbid you may have to shave your torso or legs to give yourself a nice area to rub it on. Or if you already have a small bald spot then rub it there and be sure to hit the edges of the spot. Before you know it you may have a whole cranial area of administration!!
How much Androdiol?
Mr. Arnold,
I am a bodybuilder using some Androdiol from Substrate Solutions and am curious as to what dosage you personally recommend people take. Are the prohormone dosages a function of bodyweight? Since my own weight varies between 275 and 295, I usually have to double (or even triple ) the dosages of medicine I take compared to the “standard” recommended dosages meant for normal people. Thanks for your time and for developing a product which, according to all accounts, is one of the first truly effective supplements ever produced.
TJ
Its tough to prescribe over email but I would say take 600 to 1200mg a day in 3 divided doses
Cyclodextrin versus Sublingual Prohormone Administration
My question is about the SCC I have 100mg of 19-Norandrostenediol and 100mg of 4-Androstenediol that I take can I take half the dose under my tongue and get the same effects that the SCC will do? Could you tell me the best way to take the pro hormones that I have?
Straight prohormones do not have very good absorption under the tongue. When complexed with cyclodextrin the properties change to enable it to absorb extremely well. It would be a long and detailed explanation but that is the jist of it.
Cyclodextrin vs. Injectable Androdiol
Hi Pat, I read an article about using cyclodextrin to increase the Availability of andro and a sentence how an injectable andro would increase the bioavailability to almost a 100%. I’ve been looking all over for something that might shed a little light on formulating an injectable form from the oral form but I’ve been unsuccessful in finding anything. I was just wondering if you could “hypothetically” shed a little light on how one would go about formulating such a thing. Great column! I very much enjoy reading it daily. Keep up the great work!!
Syntrax is coming out with a transdermal suspension which is supposed to have characteristics that would make it a suitable injectable but I have nothing more to say about that.
Propecia and Deca Durabolin
Dear Mr. Arnold,
In your answer to Propecia and prohormones I see that you say Propecia and Norandrodiol will cause more hair loss. I am wondering, would the same happen to a person taking the real stuff – Deca? Thanks for your time. I am hoping to hit my Deca cycle on January 1st and would like your help.
Yes, it works that way with all 19-nors with the exception of a subclass that is not available anyway.
About the author
Patrick Arnold, widely considered the "father of prohormones", is an organic chemist known for introducing androstenedione, 1-androstenediol, and methylhexanamine into the dietary supplement market. He became infamous for creating the designer steroid tetrahydrogestrinone, also known as THG and "the clear".
Arnold manufactured THG, norbolethone and desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT) for athletes in the BALCO doping scandal. The designer steroids, which were legal at the time of their creation, were difficult for anti-doping authorities to detect.
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