Ask Patrick Arnold #14

Ipriflavone

What is the difference between ipriflavone and isoflavone? I keep hearing isoflavone used with soy products and ipriflavone used in body building “stacks”, but I still don’t know the difference. I can find almost nothing on ipriflavone on the net or anywhere. I am most interested in what ipriflavone is. Can you help me??

Isoflavones are a class of compounds with certain basic chemical structural similarities that occur naturally in plants. There are literally thousands of different isoflavones. Two important ones occur in soybeans, Daidzen and Genistein. These are estrogenic isoflavones.

Ipriflavone is a synthetic isoflavone (7-isopropoxyisoflavone). Supplement companies are selling it now with the mistaken belief that it is naturally occurring but to date this compound has never been identified in nature. Ipriflavone is a non-hormonal anabolic agent that exerts effects on bone mineral and protein metabolism

SSRI and p450 Cytochrome

Pat according to a DR Eugene Shippen a number of drugs interfere with the p450 liver enzyme system. This will cause a build up of estrogen and may be significant in the development of male menopause. Among the drugs that whack p450 are the SSRI’s. Unfortunately I have to take Zoloft to combat OCD. My test levels are low and my estrogen levels are high. 300 to 525 ng/dl test, 12.3 to 17.0 free test and 44 pg. of estrogen out of 9 to 44 pg. range. Any thoughts on this as I am 41 years old and getting fatter and weaker in the gym. thanks bill

There are a multitude of cytochrome P450 enzymes that effect all different kinds of metabolic steps. Whether Zoloft affects one that participates in estrogen metabolism is unknown to me, there was nothing on medline indicating this

Precursor Compounds

Dear Patrick,

I wanted to get your thoughts on the benefits (or lack of) tapering doses of precursor compounds at the end of moderate length cycles (4 weeks). Specifically I was interested in your views on the effect tapering off would have on retention of gained mass. From my limited understanding of these materials, it seems it might be beneficial to use a “kite” cycle (rather than a diamond) where you ramp up quickly but taper down over the last two weeks of a four week cycle. I also wanted to sincerely thank you for sharing your time and expertise.

From my personal observations of steroid users and prohormone users there is minimal if any benefit from tapering as opposed to stopping cold turkey

Andros

I’m 28 years old and have just started taking 200mg of 19-Norandrostenedione, 200mg of 19-Norandrodiol, 200mg of Androstenedione, and 3 capsules of Chrysin. Is this a good cycle? Or is there a better cycle to maximize my gains? Any comments would be helpful – either negative or positive?

A couple of comments. Drop the androstenedione and replace it with androdiol (4-androstenediol). A-dione is not that effective and raises estrogen too much. If you find you have problems with estrogenic effects (i.e. bitch tits) even after this substitution then drop the norandrostenedione. I would also trash the chrysin, it does not seem to work and a study recently done on rats shows that it indeed has not effect on serum estrogens.

Which Book?

Mr. Arnold,

I am interested in purchasing a book on steroids. What they do, how to use them, how to come off them etc… I’ve been to the Mesomorphosis book store and there are quite a few books, which do you recommend. i.e. Dan Duchaine’s book or the world anabolic review, etc.?

Those laymen books are pretty good for giving real world information but they are often way off when it comes to scientific facts. The best books for the science of anabolic steroids are Vida’s “Androgens and Anabolic Agents”, and Kochackian’s “Androgenic/Anabolic Steroids”. These are available in most college medical and/or science libraries.

Prohormones???

Mr. Arnold:

I am 22 years old & 6′ tall. I have been retired from competitive athletics for about 2 years and have recently begun slight running and weightlifting again. When I was competing at NCAA/National level was 170 lb., 4.2% body fat and some-what well defined. Now, after about 2 years of doing nothing things have changed. I stopped pre-Olympic training because of shoulder injury, no motivation and overall burnout. I look at my self and % fat, strength, muscle mass etc. is not the same. I want to start rebuilding these past 2 lost years. I am 185 lb. and % body fat has greatly increased and replaced lean muscle mass “space.” I am looking at prohormones to help me quickly loose % fat and rapidly increase strength and lean muscle mass. What do you suggest I use? (Diol Stack?, Andro Stack?, etc???) How much of it (mg/day)? In combination with something else such as Chrysin? Any suggested dietary and workout (lifting/cardio.) regiments/suggestions would also be greatly appreciated. Please educate me and help me feel good about by self again. Thank you for you time and suggestions.

Prohormones will not help you lose fat, however they may help you spare lean muscle tissue while dieting. You may want to try a combination of androdiol and norandrodiol and start at around 200mg each a day. You can work your dosages up until you find that the stuff is working for you. Also if you can handle thermogenic products then these will give you much assistance in losing fat.

I won’t comment on training regimens, you should know enough about this already. Lift weights and keep the cardio to a reasonable level (3 times a week or so).

Safe Dosage of 19-norandrostenediol.

Pat,

I’ve read that taking more than 500mg/day of prohormones can severely stress the kidneys. Is this true? I’m a 35 year old male and been working out for about 2 years. I’m currently stacking Androdiol and 19-norandrostenediol, combined dosage is 600mg/day (300mg each). Can I safely increase the 19-norandrostenediol dosage?

Thanks!

Bob Long

The kidney toxicity rumor is complete bullshit with no basis whatsoever in fact. I believe you can safely increase the 19-nordiol dosage if you feel you want to.

Creatine and Metformin

I was thinking that metformin + creatine would be a good idea. (especially during the loading phase). I wasn’t going to use it for a long time. Maybe just during the loading phase. 500-850 mg of metformin 2 times a day.

p.s.- I have a biochemistry and pharmacology background so don’t hold anything back.

Metformin plus creatine is a horrible idea for two reasons. One is that the two together will probably lead to diarrhea. The second is that Metformin interferes with the absorption of carbohydrates and will decrease insulin levels leading to much less uptake of creatine.

Arimidex

Dear Arnold,

In a nutshell, I am 33 years old and after surgery to remove a brain tumor, I couldn’t eat for 6 days. During this time I lost 27 pounds of, I’m assuming, lean muscle mass. First off, does a traumatic event like this, coupled with catabolic drugs (Decadron) set up a hormonal environment that tends to stay with the body long after the treatment? If so, can it be overcome? And second, what are the lab rats finding is the optimum dosage and length of use for Arimidex? I have been on it for roughly 6 weeks following a “cycle” and it seems as if my testes are just staying small. I thought anastrozole would help the HPTA and not hinder it….right?

Thanks, Brent

You should be able to bounce back from your catabolic catastrophe. It may take a bit of time to completely readjust your metabolism and hormonal state but there is no reason why you should not return to an anabolic state if you do the right things.

Sometimes testosterone production can go up without noticing a large increase in testicular size. I do not know why this is but it could be due to the fact that although your Leydig cells (test producing) are coming back your Sertoli cells (sperm producing) are not. Sertoli cells are influenced by follicle stimulating hormone FSH. However aromatase inhibitors are supposed to stimulate both LH and FSH. I don’t know the explanation I guess

Prohormone Possibility

Dear Patrick

I know that the early research was done by East Germans. Notwithstanding, they did much research on anabolics, specifically, oral Turinabol. Through this research they discovered a truly novel Turinabol analog (a.k.a. Substance XII) The generic name for this compound is 4-chlor-1-dehyrdro-17 alpha-methyltestosterone, 4-chlor-17-alpha-methyl-11- beta-hydroxy-1, 4-androstandien-3-on or 11-beta hydroxy oral Turinabol. Getting to the point; Is it feasible to produce the hormonal precursor (prohormone) to this drug? Your prompt response would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Jim

That steroid is a 17alpha-alkylated steroid and these are not naturally occurring. Nor are chlorinated steroids. If I were to produce a prohormone to this steroid and tried to sell it as a supplement I would be breaking the law.

Dosages

Would it be better to take 3 doses of 200 mg of androdiol or 6 100 mg doses. I thought it would be better to take 6 100 mg doses so the elevation of test is more steady through out the day?

I am without a doubt convinced that it would be better to take 3 doses of 200mg. Higher dosages result in liver overload and much less breakdown of prohormone resulting in good increases in serum testosterone. Lower dosages are effectively handled by the liver and proportionally much less testosterone is seen. Also, higher dosages give higher peak concentrations and baseline levels are returned to much later than with small doses.

Question

Hi. I’m a 19 year old college student who has been an avid lifter for at least the last 2 years. Although this doesn’t exactly qualify me as an experienced lifter or bodybuilder, I do consider myself relatively knowledgeable about sports nutrition and training. What I’m not totally clear about prohormones. I mean, I have read up on all the supposed benefits of their usage as well as the biochemical basis for their effectiveness, but I just need to know the bottom line. How effective are they and are they REALLY safe? I know you don’t condone the use of anabolic steroids but you still honestly discuss them. I’m looking for a similar candor if you will. I want to know what you personally think is the best pro-hormone out there. Also if their are any real long-term problems associated with usage. For instance I have read that taking androstenedione/diol can cause DHT related problems (prostate enlargement, acceleration of male pattern baldness, etc.) but I’ve also read that taking the nor-androstenedione/diol counterparts doesn’t cause these types of problems. But do the nor-androstenedione/diol products cause any liver damage short or long term or do they have any repercussions on sexual function? I actually have a few bottles of 19-norandrostenedione and the diol version, but am wondering whether I should use them or not. I have no problem disposing of them if they cause any real health problems. Thanks.

I have seen no evidence of any serious health problems associated with prohormones. They appear to be essentially free of liver toxicity. The only concern may be one that is seen with many androgens and that is a slight reduction in High Density Lipoproteins (HDL)

Concerns that are not of an immediate health threat include partial shutdown of the HPTA (the feedback loop of testosterone production) and possible estrogenic side effects such as gynecomastia (bitch tits). The HPTA shutdown can be controlled if one uses reasonably short cycles (6 weeks or less) and the estrogenic effects can be minimized if one sticks to diols instead of diones.

I know of no clear cut evidence that indicates that increased testosterone levels when one is younger will lead to an increased risk of prostate cancer.

Some find that norandrogens decrease their libido but this is not necessarily the case across the board.