Ask Patrick Arnold #15

Norephedrine and PPA

Is there a difference between Norephedrine and Phenylpropanolamine or are they one and the same? There seems to be a trend among the fat burning supplements to get away from ephedrine containing compounds towards the former mentioned product. Is there any valid research showing norephedrine to be an effective thermogenic agent? Thanks a million!

Craig

Both names describe the same compound(s). It is important to know that there are two different optical isomers of this compound. The synthetic stuff is a racemic mixture – dl-norephedrine and the natural stuff that Syntrax sells I think is straight l-norephedrine. Though I am not completely sure. Derek Cornelius would be the one who knows more than myself probably

Dianabol and Drug Testing

Dear Mr. Arnold,

My friend was on a type of steroid he calls D-bol. I have been working out with him for the last 5 month since he started. His results are amazing not only in size but more in the strength department. What is the medical name for it?

Second, I am a utility worker and on any given day, I will work on 200 or 50,000 volts, so drug testing is random and very frequent. To my knowledge, they check for drugs like cocaine, marijuana, etc. Will this type of steroid show up in my urine say if they were looking for the other stuff. Is there any way to manipulate it . Also heard it can cause severe liver damage. Thank you so much for your time.

Seth

Seth, your friend is taking a steroid called Dianabol, or generically known as methandrostenolone. It is referred to as D-bol for short. This anabolic steroid is perhaps the most well known and abused of all steroids from the 1960’s on. It was, for a long time, the standard bodybuilding drug used by athletes. It is a very effective compound however there is a slight risk of liver toxicity when it is being used due to a synthetic chemical alteration from normal testosterone to make it orally active.

I doubt your company screens for steroids when they analyze your urine. It is just too expensive and besides what they are really interested in is anything that will interfere with your awareness and reactions, not your muscle girth.

Prohormone Enzyme Saturation

How much prohormone can one enzymatic pathway handle before the enzyme is used up and the excess prohormone becomes wasted? Also, how long before the enzymes are back to normal levels in the liver? In other words, how much 4-AD can be taken at one time and how often throughout the day should it be taken?

Unfortunately we still do not know at what dosage a saturation of receptors is reached with any of the prohormones. It certainly seems that the threshold is much higher with 3beta-HSD (transforms the 4-diols) than with 17beta-HSD (transforms the 4-diones). I have heard of dose dependent increases in effects up to a few grams a day with the diols, so it may be that either a saturation is not being reached OR unchanged diol is exerting a direct anabolic/androgenic effect.

Saw Palmetto – Good or Bad?

Is Saw Palmetto a good idea to take or is it detrimental? I have heard conflicting reports.

I still don’t know if it has an adequate risk to benefit ratio. On the good side some evidence shows it may act as an anti-estrogen and a 5alpha reductase inhibitor (blocks formation of DHT). However, some evidence also demonstrates an androgen receptor blocking property and that is something we certainly do NOT want. So the evidence is inconclusive.

Norandrodiol for Joint Pain

Mr. Arnold,

Does 19 Norandrodiol impart the same effect of easing joint pain as Deca? I have chronic elbow pain that only gets relief when on a Deca cycle. If the prohormones can illicit the same effect, what dosage is needed per day and which Substrate Solution “Nor” product would be the most effective? Thanks very much for the info.

Sincerely,
John

I have heard this deca / joint pain thing for years now and if there really is anything to it I cannot figure what it could be. If it had some glucocorticoid activity this would make some sense but it certainly does not. Also, if it had prostaglandin synthesis inhibitory activity similar to NSAIDS like aspirin and ibuprofen, then I could understand it but I see no indication that this is the case. Anyway, if there is something unique to the nandrolone molecule that allows it to alleviate joint pain then I would expect you would see this effect whether you delivered the substance thru an injectable ester or a prohormone.

Effectiveness of Miscellaneous Supplements

Hi Patrick,
Hoping you could give me your brief thoughts of the effectiveness of the following supplements:

1. Vanadyl Sulfate
2. OKG
3. HMB
4. CLA
5. Digestive Enzymes (for inflammation)

I truly appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!

Kirk

Jeez, this letter must have been stuck in the mail for 3 years. Anyway,
Vanadyl Sulfate is in my opinion a waste of time, and possibly counterproductive. I have read studies where while it does share some of the glucose transporting properties of insulin, it might not exert any of the positive effects of insulin on protein metabolism. Also the glucose deposition in one study with rats showed that the liver was way too overpreferred for storage compared to muscle.

OKG: OKG was something that showed a lot of promise because of its effectiveness as an anti-catabolic nutritional supplement for critical care patients with marked negative nitrogen balance. However, the stuff did not pan out with well nourished untraumatized bodybuilders who got nothing from the stuff except a case of the dry heaves when they opened the bottle.

HMB: HMB was a victim of shameless hype. It was an interesting nutrient that should have been introduced in a low key manner, reflecting its modest capabilities. However the marketing Godzilla of bodybuilding at the time raised all sorts of unreasonable expectations for the stuff which eventually spelled its death in the eyes of the consumers. HMB might have some marginal positive effects on protein metabolism and fat redistribution, however given its high cost it is usually not the place where ones limited budget should be going.

CLA: CLA, at least in its present form, seems to be a big dissapointment as well. The commercial oil remains too expensive and not enriched enough for effective usage (if it is effective at the higher dosages). There also is some recent indication that the c9,t11 isomer may not be the most active, but rather the c10,t12. Who knows.

Digestive Enzymes: As far as digestive enzymes counteracting inflammation I don’t think that is what they would do. Rather, I would think they might irritate any sensitive areas of your gut if anything.

Boy you really made a complete list of some of the biggest supplement bombs of the last five years. Is someone trying to sell you a bunch of surplus supplements they can’t get rid of or something?

Effective Anti-Estrogens

Hello Mr. Arnold,

I am wondering is it necessary to take an anti-estrogen like chrysin with androstenedione? I read it is not necessary to take anti-estrogens with Androdiol. Is this true? Finally what side effects and effects would be encountered taking Dianabol (2 tablets) daily for 6 weeks and then off for 6 weeks. How could the side effects be eliminated? Thanks again Mr. Arnold

Androstenedione differs from androdiol in chemical structure in such a way that the former can aromatize fairly easily while the latter cannot aromatize directly. Therefore estrogen is much more of a problem with androstenedione than 4-AD (androdiol). So many do not find it necessary to take an anti-estrogen with androdiol.

My friend did a study on rats with chrysin that seems to support the fear that the stuff does not inhibit estrogen production at reasonable dosages. There really is no super promising natural anti-estrogen out there except for I3C (or better yet diindoylmethane).

I don’t think a whole lot would be gained from 10mg a day of Dianabol, unless you are a first time user with high sensitivity. You could get acne, gyno, and water retention as most common side effects.