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You are here: Home / Steroid Articles / MENT Insights: Unique Characteristics of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids – Part 4

MENT Insights: Unique Characteristics of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids – Part 4

September 4, 2024 by Type-IIx Leave a Comment

MENT insights

Estimated reading time: 1 minute

Table of contents

  • Introduction
  • MENT’s Unique Features
  • Estrogenic Effects
    • Gynecomastic Effects Arising Out of Estrogenicity
  • Gestagenic Effects
    • Gynecomastic Effects Arising Out of Anti androgenicity
    • Edematous Effects
    • Hypertensive Effects
    • Haematologic Effects
  • Conclusion

Introduction

MENT (trestolone; methylnortestosterone; 7α-methyl-19-nortestosterone; 7α-CH₃-NorT) is a non-5α-reducible androst-4-ene-3-one, potently progestagenic and estrogenic anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS). MENT is non-17α-methylated mibolerone (Cheque drops™; 7α,17α-CH₃-NorT). MENT’s unique features do not imbue it with any special bodybuilding use case, unlike the prior AAS that this author has reviewed (e.g., trenbolone for recomp, stanozolol for drying-out, fluoxymesterone for peaking). Rather, its features combine unfavorably for any bodybuilding practical use, across the dimensions of gynecomastia (causing male breast tissue growth), fluid balance (causing “bloat”), and blood pressure (causing systolic hypertension or increased pulse pressure).

This is part four of an 11-part series on the unique characteristics of various AAS.

Combinations – Types of Effects:

Additive: Effects that typically act via the same receptor(s) and/or mechanism(s) on the same end-point (e.g., increased muscle protein synthesis via the AR). To apply a heuristic, these are effects for which 1 + 1 = 2.

Synergistic (Greater than Additive): Effects that typically act via different receptor(s) and/or mechanism(s) on the same end-point (e.g., decreased muscle protein breakdown via decreased GR number and antagonism of GR). To apply a heuristic, these are 1 + 1 > 2

MENT’s Unique Features

  • Estrogenic Effects by aromatization to the most potent known aromatic product of any known AAS – 7α-methylestradiol (7α-ME)
  • Gestagenic Effects by strong progesterone receptor (PR) activation:
    • That combine synergistically to yield:
      1. Gynecomastic Effects (growth of breast tissue in men)
      2. Edematous Effects (fluid retention; “bloat”), and
      3. Hypertensive Effects (elevated blood pressure; particularly systolic; i.e., pulse pressure)

Before we can discuss MENT’s uniquely Edematous Effects (fluid retentive; “bloating”) we must first iterate through the factors that underpin fluid retention (Estrogenic Effects and Gestagenic Effects) first before next discussing how those same factors underpin its particular Hypertensive Effects (elevated blood pressure, particularly systolic; i.e., increased pulse pressure).

Estrogenic Effects

MENT uniquely aromatizes to the most potent known aromatic product of any AAS – 7α-methylestradiol (7α-ME). [1].

From the The Theory of Compound-Dependent (Per-AAS) and Individualized (Per-User) Estrogenic Potencies (Author’s Model), estrogenicity refers to the effects associated with ER- α and β activation (the latter generally opposing the former), and depends on Compound-Dependent (Per-AAS) and Individualized (Per-User) Factors that determine both (A) actual blood levels of, and (B) tissue-level effects of, an AAS’s aromatic products.

MENT and estrogenicity
Table 1: The most potent of all, 7α-ME produces ½ of the maximal growth response (EC₅₀) in human breast (T47Dco) tissue to a mere scintilla: a 4.4 picomole (pM) concentration. Like trenbolone but bad, it too does more with less. [1].

Gynecomastic Effects Arising Out of Estrogenicity

MENT’s aromatic product, 7α-ME, is more than fourfold the potency (“efficacious,” a bad thing here) as estradiol (E2) in ER-containing cells. [1]. Efficacy is determined by measuring the effect, e.g., growth (here, in breast cancer cells). The EC₅₀ (EC50) is determined by the concentrations at which the ligand triggers growth and may be confirmed by measurements of cell cycle progression (i.e., the S-phase entry during the cell cycle).

The binding affinity (IC₅₀) of MENT’s aromatic product, 7α-ME, is 102% that of E2, which is typically used as the reference compound for ER binding given its noteworthy efficacy, potency, and affinity for the ER-α receptor, in the literature. [1].

Comparing the rate of aromatization between MENT and nandrolone, Attardi and colleagues found that, “[a]t 180 min, about 23% of MENT was converted to 7α-ME and about 13% of [nandrolone] to E2.” Since nandrolone aromatizes at 20% the rate of testosterone (T), we can deduce that MENT aromatizes at roughly 35% the rate of T to 7α-ME, with its four-fold potency versus E2, i.e., for causing growth in breast cancer cells. Simple multiplication of the rate of aromatization (35%) × EC50(7α-methylestradiol) × RBA(7α-methylestradiol) ≈ MENT’s 40% greater growth potential in ER-containing cells than T. [2]. †.

Deduction, then, supports reports by users that MENT is potently estrogenic. Mathematically, we are able to say that 50 mg daily of MENT E ≈ as estrogenic as 500 mg of Test E weekly.

Further, as described in the following section – MENT’s Gestagenic Effects dramatically potentiates its hypertensive and edematous (proclivity to retain fluid) effects.

Gestagenic Effects

Gynecomastic Effects Arising Out of Antiandrogenicity

MENT is a potently progestagenic (“gestagenic”) androgen that possesses 27.5% the potency of Androcur™ – an anti-androgen and progestin medication used to treat androgen-dependent maladies including acne, hirsutism, and prostate cancer – to activate the progesterone receptor (PR). [11].

Progestins contribute to hypothalamo-pituitary gonadal (HPG) axis suppression by dysregulating hypothalamic gonadotropins via KNDy dendron signalling, disrupting GnRH pulsatility, and inhibiting pituitary LH secretion, thereby inhibiting (endogenous) T synthesis and secretion. [12]. [13]. Synthetic progestins used in contraception derive efficacy from this feature. Bebb and colleagues randomized healthy men to receive either testosterone enanthate (100 mg weekly), or the same dosage of testosterone in combination with the progestin levonorgestrel, the addition of which virtually abolished LH and FSH secretion. [14]. Decreased LH and FSH can cause secondary hypogonadism, thereby decreasing the androgen/estrogen ratio (A:E), causing gynecomastia. [15].

The effects of progestins relate to their interactions with receptors: androgen receptors (AR) (e.g., acnea, lipid effects); glucocorticoid receptors (GR) (eg., salt and water retention, bloating); or mineralocorticoid receptors (MR) (e.g., decreased water retention and weight). Anti-androgenic progestins may act in several ways. They can exert competitive inhibition of the AR, or bind to the enzyme 5-alpha reductase and hence interact with the conversion of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (its active metabolite).[16].

Progesterone and its derivatives, and progesterone mimics (e.g., MENT) moderately bind to the AR in a competitive (i.e., antagonist) mode. [17]. Progesterone derivatives alter both AR- and PR-, but not ER-, mediated tissue responses. [17].

Estrogens up-regulate PR synthesis. [18]. Further, activation of PR has been linked to reduced expression of AR, thereby hampering the androgen-mediated inhibition on breast tissue growth observed in condition of normal hormonal homeostasis. [19].

Progesterone and its derivatives may further cause gynecomastia by enhancing the effect of E2 on breast tissues. [20].

In summary, the features that have been discusses – MENT’s Estrogenic Effects and Gestagenic Effects – underpin its potent Edematous Effects and its Hypertensive Effects.

Edematous Effects

Edema, or fluid retention, is the touchstone of excessive estrogenicity in AAS-using bodybuilders.

MENT and edema
Figure 1: MENT stands in the place of E₂ and P₄ to promote fluid balance by multiple mechanisms. [10].

This diagram illustrates how MENT manifoldly acts to promote fluid retention (edema) and hypertension (increased systolic blood pressure; Increase Pulse Pressure). MENT is analogous to E₂ (estradiol; E2) and P₄ (progesterone) vis-à-vis 7α-ME and its 29.2% potency to activate the PR a la P₄. [11].

MENT, then, promotes fluid retention by acting on:

  1. The brain and central nervous system (CNS) to increase thirst and sodium appetite via angiotensin II signalling (ANG II), and
  2. The kidneys by acting on:
    1. antidiuretic hormones, e.g., arginine vasopressin (AVP), reducing urination
    2. the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system (RAAS), increasing sodium balance, and/or
    3. the renal tubuli, promoting sodium and water retention. [10].

Hypertensive Effects

Figure 1 also illustrates, partly, how MENT, standing in the place of E₂ (estradiol; E2) and P₄ (progesterone) promotes Increased Pulse Pressure. It does so by increasing fluid balance (i.e., “bloat”) a la its Edematous Effects and by acting on the osmoreceptors of the central nervous system (CNS) and on the baroreceptors of the peripheral nervous system (PNS), as well as by acting on angiotensin II (ANG II), AVP, and neurons throughout various systems. [10].

Increased Pulse Pressure

MENT significantly increases systolic blood pressure (i.e., pulse pressure) at a weekly dose of less than 2 mg. [21].

Pulse pressure (Pp) is the difference (mmHg) between systolic & diastolic pressures. A normal pulse pressure is, then, 40 mmHg (120 mmHg – 80 mmHg = 40 mmHg).

Pulse Pressure

Pulse pressure (Pp) represents the force that the heart generates each time it contracts, or arterial compliance (C). Where pulse pressure is normal at 40 mmHg, a Pp < 25% of the systolic pressure is low or narrowed, and a Pp > 100 mmHg is high or widened.

A change in pulse pressure (ΔPp) is proportional to volume (V) change (ΔV) but inversely proportional to arterial compliance (C):

ΔPp = Δ V/C

Because the change in volume is due to the stroke volume (SV) of blood ejected from the left ventricle, we can approximate pulse pressure as:

Pp = SV/C

A normal young adult at rest has a stroke volume (SV) of approximately 80 mL. Arterial compliance (C) is approximately 2 mL/mmHg, which confirms that normal pulse pressure is approximately 40 mmHg.

MENT, therefore induces a widened pulse pressure, increasing stroke volume.

Haematologic Effects

Blood Thickening

MENT, by increasing sodium and fluid retention, increases plasma volume. It also increases hemoglobin rapidly.

Hemoglobin and Hematocrit

Hemoglobin (Hb) is a binding protein in erythrocytes (RBCs) for O₂ (Hb 13.5 – 17 g/dL [men], 12 – 15.5 g/dL [women])

Hematocrit (HCT) represents the % of blood volume occupied by erythrocytes (RBCs) [men 41-51%, women 36-47%].

Hematocrit (HCT) is related to hemoglobin (Hb) by the basic formula:

Hb (g/dL) × 3 ≈ HCT (%)

Example: Hb of 15 g/dL ≈ HCT of 45%.

Hemoglobin levels were significantly increased (149 ± 2.9 g/L → 154 ± 3.3; effect size: 1.724; %Δ: +3.35%; 95% confidence interval) by MENT (~ 2 mg q.w.) at 12 weeks, and a similar pattern (0.44 to 0.46; effect size: 2; %Δ: +4.5%; not significant) was seen in hematocrit, but this did not reach statistical significance. [21]. In the testosterone group (~ 120 mg q.w.), by contrast, a slower progressive rise in hemoglobin concentration was observed that only became significant at 48 weeks. There was also a significant overall rise in hematocrit in the testosterone group, although none of the individual treatment time points were significantly different from pre-treatment (0.45 ± 0.01). [21].

Conclusion

MENT’s basic features – its potent estro- and gesta- genicity – lay the basic foundation for its sharp Edematous Effects and Hypertensive Effects in a way that its gynecomastic effects, those Gynecomastic Effects Arising Out of Estrogenicity and Gynecomastic Effects Arising Out of Antiandrogenicity, cannot be ignored. In the mode of 7α-ME, it potently suppresses gonadotropins (LH, FSH), decreasing the A:E, synergizing with gestagenic features with potency on par with pharmaceutical antiandrogens (e.g., Androcur™), stimulating growth directly in breast tissue via ER, and indirectly via gestagenic and antiandrogenic action in the mode of progesterone (with nearly ⅓ potency per-mg). MENT particularly promotes “bloat” via its action on the kidneys (regulating fluid and sodium retention) and brain (increasing thirst and sodium ingestion) and particularly promotes hypertension, especially increased pulse pressure, by increasing stroke volume via augmented plasma volume and hematocrit, i.e., blood viscosity, or thickness.

This article might foreseeable serve as a deterrent to bodybuilders’ use of this practically useless agent.

Still, it does have some unique(ly terrible) aspects.

Endnotes

† We must also consider the rate of breakdown of the produced 7a-methylestradiol, as well as the estrogenic potency of the resulting metabolites (Peter Bond, Oct 20 2021).

References

[1] Attardi BJ, Pham TC, Radler LC, Burgenson J, Hild SA, Reel JR. Dimethandrolone (7alpha,11beta-dimethyl-19-nortestosterone) and 11beta-methyl-19-nortestosterone are not converted to aromatic A-ring products in the presence of recombinant human aromatase. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2008;110(3-5):214-222. doi:10.1016/j.jsbmb.2007.11.009

[2] Ryan, Kenneth J. “Biological aromatization of steroids.” Journal of Biological Chemistry 234.2. (1959): 268-272.

[3] Navarro, V. M., Gottsch, M. L., Chavkin, C., Okamura, H., Clifton, D. K., and Steiner, R. A. (2009). Regulation of Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone Secretion by Kisspeptin/Dynorphin/Neurokinin B Neurons in the Arcuate Nucleus of the Mouse. Journal of Neuroscience, 29(38), 11859–11866. doi:10.1523/jneurosci.1569-09.2009

[4] Girmus, R. L., and Wise, M. E. (1992). Progesterone Directly Inhibits Pituitary Luteinizing Hormone Secretion in an Estradiol-dependent Manner1. Biology of Reproduction, 46(4), 710–714. doi:10.1095/biolreprod46.4.710

[5] Bebb, R. A., Anawalt, B. D., Christensen, R. B., Paulsen, C. A., Bremner, W. J., and Matsumoto, A. M. (1996). Combined administration of levonorgestrel and testosterone induces more rapid and effective suppression of spermatogenesis than testosterone alone: a promising male contraceptive approach. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 81(2), 757–762. doi:10.1210/jcem.81.2.8636300

[6] Sitruk-Ware, R. (2004). Pharmacological profile of progestins. Maturitas, 47(4), 277–283. doi:10.1016/j.maturitas.2004.01.001

[7] Fang, H., Tong, W., Branham, W. S., Moland, C. L., Dial, S. L., Hong, H., … Sheehan, D. M. (2003). Study of 202 Natural, Synthetic, and Environmental Chemicals for Binding to the Androgen Receptor. Chemical Research in Toxicology, 16(10), 1338–1358. doi:10.1021/tx030011g

[8] Eyster, K. M. (Ed.). (2016). Estrogen Receptors. Methods in Molecular Biology. doi:10.1007/978-1-4939-3127-9

[9] Sansone, A., Romanelli, F., Sansone, M., Lenzi, A., and Di Luigi, L. (2016). Gynecomastia and hormones. Endocrine, 55(1), 37–44. doi:10.1007/s12020-016-0975-9

[10] Zhou, J., Ng, S., Adesanya-Famuiya, O., Anderson, K., and Bondy, C. A. (2000). Testosterone inhibits estrogen-induced mammary epithelial proliferation and suppresses estrogen receptor expression. The FASEB Journal, 14(12), 1725–1730. doi:10.1096/fj.99-0863com

[11] Houtman, C. J., Sterk, S. S., van de Heijning, M. P. M., Brouwer, A., Stephany, R. W., van der Burg, B., and Sonneveld, E. (2009). Detection of anabolic androgenic steroid abuse in doping control using mammalian reporter gene bioassays. Analytica Chimica Acta, 637(1-2), 247–258. doi:10.1016/j.aca.2008.09.037

[12] Navarro, V. M., Gottsch, M. L., Chavkin, C., Okamura, H., Clifton, D. K., and Steiner, R. A. (2009). Regulation of Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone Secretion by Kisspeptin/Dynorphin/Neurokinin B Neurons in the Arcuate Nucleus of the Mouse. Journal of Neuroscience, 29(38), 11859–11866. doi:10.1523/jneurosci.1569-09.2009

[13] Girmus, R. L., and Wise, M. E. (1992). Progesterone Directly Inhibits Pituitary Luteinizing Hormone Secretion in an Estradiol-dependent Manner1. Biology of Reproduction, 46(4), 710–714. doi:10.1095/biolreprod46.4.710

[14] Bebb, R. A., Anawalt, B. D., Christensen, R. B., Paulsen, C. A., Bremner, W. J., and Matsumoto, A. M. (1996). Combined administration of levonorgestrel and testosterone induces more rapid and effective suppression of spermatogenesis than testosterone alone: a promising male contraceptive approach. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 81(2), 757–762. doi:10.1210/jcem.81.2.8636300

[15] Narula HS, Carlson HE. Gynaecomastia–pathophysiology, diagnosis and treatment. Nat Rev Endocrinol. 2014;10(11):684-698. doi:10.1038/nrendo.2014.139

[16] Sitruk-Ware, R. (2004). Pharmacological profile of progestins. Maturitas, 47(4), 277–283. doi:10.1016/j.maturitas.2004.01.001

[17] Fang, H., Tong, W., Branham, W. S., Moland, C. L., Dial, S. L., Hong, H., … Sheehan, D. M. (2003). Study of 202 Natural, Synthetic, and Environmental Chemicals for Binding to the Androgen Receptor. Chemical Research in Toxicology, 16(10), 1338–1358. doi:10.1021/tx030011g

[18] Eyster, K. M. (Ed.). (2016). Estrogen Receptors. Methods in Molecular Biology. Doi:10.1007/978-1-4939-3127-9

[19] Sansone, A., Romanelli, F., Sansone, M., Lenzi, A., and Di Luigi, L. (2016). Gynecomastia and hormones. Endocrine, 55(1), 37–44. doi:10.1007/s12020-016-0975-9

[20] Zhou, J., Ng, S., Adesanya-Famuiya, O., Anderson, K., and Bondy, C. A. (2000). Testosterone inhibits estrogen-induced mammary epithelial proliferation and suppresses estrogen receptor expression. The FASEB Journal, 14(12), 1725–1730. doi:10.1096/fj.99-0863com

[21] Walton, M. J., Kumar, N., Baird, D. T., Ludlow, H., & Anderson, R. A. (2007). 7 -Methyl-19-Nortestosterone (MENT) vs Testosterone in Combination With Etonogestrel Implants for Spermatogenic Suppression in Healthy Men. Journal of Andrology, 28(5), 679–688. doi:10.2164/jandrol.107.002683

About the author

Type-IIx
Type-IIx

Type-IIx is a physique coach, author, and researcher. Bolus: A Practical Guide and Reference for recombinant Human Growth Hormone Use will be his first published textbook, anticipated for release in early 2023. Ampouletude.com will be Type-IIx's base of operations for coaching services and publications. Type-IIx is proud to be a contributing writer to MesoRx, his home forum, where he is a regular poster.

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B BigNattyMcGee Sep 04, 2024 #1

Thanks again @Type-IIx !

Reply 1 like

M MyNameIsJeff Sep 04, 2024 #2

"In summary, the features that have been discusses – MENT’s and– underpin its potent and its ."

"Hypertensive Effects

also illustrates, partly, how MENT, standing in the place of E₂ (estradiol; E2) and P₄ (progesterone) promotes . "

There seem to be some cut-off or incomplete sentences.

Reply 1 like

M MyNameIsJeff Sep 04, 2024 #3

Also, the claim that MENT or its metabolites have any 'antiandrogenic action' does not appear to be substantiated in the article.

Yes, some progestagens (like Cyproterone, 'Androcur') have anti-androgenic effects. But there are also progestagens (like Trenbolone) which have a very strong (pro)androgenic effect.

So based on what evidence does the author conclude that MENT is an 'anti-androgenic progestin'? I do not see any source for this in the article. And anecdotal evidence suggests that MENT is a very potent agonist of the AR.

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Avatar of Intrepid Intrepid Sep 04, 2024 #4

Never ran it before

Never had any intention to run it prior to this article, but now I sure as hell won't run it

Know a few people that ran it and had to bail because their blood pressure went through the roof. Think ill just stick to classic test

Reply 1 like

Avatar of Methyltst1993 Methyltst1993 Sep 04, 2024 #5

have been using MENT for the third day. It is already my third course where I have Trestolon Acetate. It is a very strong aromatizing substance. I focus on strength growth not muscle building, and this steroid is perfect for that. It is stronger than trenbolone but has about the same negative effects as tren. ;)

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Avatar of Type-IIx Type-IIx Sep 05, 2024 #6

@Millard please review, I know this one might have required additional editing given its appearance in web vs. editing views.

First, let's make sure we understand the dstinction between progestins and progestagenic androgens. I will refer you to:


Article on distinguishing progestins, prolactin, and progestagenic androgens (e.g., Tren, MENT, Deca) & SERM vs. AI logic [by Type-IIx]

Introduction Prolactin: Protein (peptide hormone; 227 AA, ~26 kDa) encoded by the PRL gene that primarily acts on the mammary gland to promote lactation Progesterone: Female sex steroid hormone (C21-steroid, 20-oxo steroid, 3-oxo-Delta(4)) that primarily acts to maintain pregnancy & decrease...

View image at the forums


thinksteroids.com


The distinction between trenbolone's gestagenicity vs. MENT's is that trenbolone's arises out of its triene (Δ4,9,11) structure vis-à-vis broad homology among the ligand-binding domains of the classical nuclear steroid receptors that share a common relatively low sequence identity.

In the case of trenbolone, its Δ4,9,11 double bonds result in a flattening of the steroid molecule which leads to conformation that is less hindered for AR binding. Since C-7 is sufficiently distal from C-3 and C-17, these double bonds see minimal steric or stereoelectronic interfere with the important interactions between the AR and the carbonyl- and hydroxyl- groups of the steroid. The combination of a 17α-side chain and conjugated Δ4,9,11-double bonds in the case of trenbolone, in the presence of hydrophobic substituents, leads to a steroid that is able to bind firmly not only to the AR and PR, but also to the MR and GR.

Conversely, in the case of MENT, its substitution of a methyl group in the 7α- position, while too serving to flatten the steroid molecule – perhaps facilely appearing as analogous to trenbolone – is distinguished from trenbolone by its:

(a) binding with considerably less potency to AR, reducing antiestrogenic and androgenic potency, and

(b) aromatizing to the most potent known estrogen as well (whereas trenbolone does not aromatize).

Since progestins increase estrogen sensitivity and combine synergistically with estrogens to cause hypertension, edema, gynecomastia, and other estrogenic & gestagenic maladies, MENT stands quite apart from trenbolone in its reduced efficacy versus trenbolone, given trenbolone's myriad practically applicable unique effects.

In summary, whereas trenbolone is a most potent nonaromatizable androgen, a member of the Δ4,9,11 steroids (trienes; e.g., trenbolone & metribolone & THG, "The Clear"), a class that possesses notable structural flexibility due to conformational mobility coupled with remarkable AR transactivation potency, MENT is by contrast a mild anabolic – (to wit, unmethylated Cheque drops which is itself used as a pure androgen without hardly a scintilla of significant anabolic effects in man). MENT combines its unremarkable anabolism with the most potent known estrogen, 17α-methylestradiol, synergistic in its harms, along with MENT's > 120% potency at the PR (progesterone receptor) versus trenbolone's.

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Avatar of Type-IIx Type-IIx Sep 05, 2024 #7

Very welcome.
Stronger in what sense? Non- muscle building? I agree, it builds breast tissue extraordinarily well indeed.

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Avatar of Methyltst1993 Methyltst1993 Sep 05, 2024 #8

In terms of increased strength and sex libido. It is a strong androgen, but whether it is stronger in the sense of anabolism, I do not dare to say that.If I compare it with Trenbolone. But that's just my impression and feeling.

Reply Like

Z Zeus45 Sep 05, 2024 #9

MENT is a fantastic mass builder and plenty of bodybuilders have caught on to its remarkable potency.

Reply 1 like

Avatar of Type-IIx Type-IIx Sep 05, 2024 #10

It's interesting you say that it particularly enhances libido since:

2 of 13 (15%) MENT subjects withdrew after 8 weeks of treatment due to low libido & erectile dysfunction...Adverse events included reduced libido & erectile function in 4 additional subjects in the MENT group who completed treatment (6/13, or 46%) [these adverse effects were not reported by any subject in the testosterone group]...Due to the incidence of reports of low libido and early withdrawal in the MENT group, it was decided in consultation with the study Data Monitoring and Safety Committee to shorten the MENT treatment period to 24 weeks whereas men in the testosterone group completed 48 weeks of treatment. Walton, M. J., Kumar, N., Baird, D. T., Ludlow, H., & Anderson, R. A. (2007). 7 -Methyl-19-Nortestosterone (MENT) vs Testosterone in Combination With Etonogestrel Implants for Spermatogenic Suppression in Healthy Men. Journal of Andrology, 28(5), 679–688. doi:10.2164/jandrol.107.002683

Yeah, yeah. You love MENT, I know. Vague appeals to popularity (argumentum ad populum) aside, do you have anything concrete to dispute my proof by contradiction that it's a shitty one and more bodybuilders have stopped using it than have continued after trying it.

I don't believe that it enhances strength particularly well, and it's obviously not androgenic enough to maintain sexual function.

Reply 1 like

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S Soosh Sep 05, 2024 #11

It would be great to hear more people's personal experience with this as studies don't always apply to bodybuilders or people who live a bodybuildling lifestyle. Not to discredit them but real life experience is valuable.

Also it sounds like most of the side effects from this drug are related to high estrogen. What would happen with if lower doses were taken with appropriate estrogen management? Could it be efficient at building muscle?

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Avatar of Methyltst1993 Methyltst1993 Sep 05, 2024 #12

It works similarly to Tren Acetate. In the first 4-5 weeks, the libido is very strong, but then it drops sharply. The second thing is that the volume of the semen will also decrease. That's why I don't go longer than 8 weeks when using Ment/Tren. As far as volume is concerned, Ment builds more muscle than Tren. It also causes water retention in the body and increases blood pressure more than Tren.

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Avatar of Type-IIx Type-IIx Sep 05, 2024 #13

I can’t share since it’s so obviously terrible I refuse to use it. Tren doesn’t decrease my libido, it increases it dramatically without any decrement.

Clearly, the evidence shows that no dose is effective for bodybuilding.

The doses used in the references that everyone is not only free to, but encouraged to, check are low dose — 2 mg weekly.

So which is it, we need higher doses? Lower doses? How bout reframing the question to: what does MENT offer as a unique benefit?

The answer is nada. I looked. You’re free to as well.

Reply 2 likes

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Avatar of Type-IIx Type-IIx Sep 05, 2024 #14

Anyway I do think it’s healthy to have differing opinions about this!

Some guys are just clearly willing to use it despite its terrible tolerability and efficacy.

In my opinion, that’s unwise!

Reply 1 like

D Dyorotic2 Sep 05, 2024 #15

MENT was truly an experience when I used it, and I mean that in the worst way imaginable. At 25mg daily, within about a week my RHR was averaging beyond the 100s. Sleep quality/duration/onset/latency was destroyed. Moderate to low doses of quetiapine normally wipes out any residual insomnia from gear but it seems the histaminergic/adrenergic effects of MENT overpowered it, which led me to pick up a pregabalin habit to bring my sleep back to a respectable level. Normally, when I did end up sleeping, I'd wake up with the oilest skin of my life. It was borderline comical, waddling out of bed practically dripping in sebum. Acne obviously went through the roof. Heartburn was uncontrollable, would be scoffing bicarb soda and popping famotidine like my life depended on it. Usually l-glutamine works wonders but did nada for the gerd it was causing.

BP wasn't bad but that's because I'm not prone to blood pressure issues regardless of the steroid. I don't get gyno and I've never used an AI ever so estrogenic sides that don't pertain to water retention/acne/libido don't pop up for me ever. Speaking of libido, it was unquenchable. I've probably forgotten half the torture this poison induced.

Seems to be disgustingly androgenic in my experience. Couldn't sleep, was covered in acne, lost a bunch of hair density etc.

The gains were okay, not worth it IMO. This was about 9 months ago and since then I've come off everything just to recouperate. Had to use accutane to get the acne under control.

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Avatar of jj89 jj89 Sep 05, 2024 #16

The fact that trest has sides isn't exactly a secret, whether they're worth it or not is up to the person using it. But this article doesn't prove its efficacy or supposed lack there of.

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