Low dose TRT

[Dan1985]

Hi Guys,

I am 29 years of age and suffer low test and some minor venous insufficiency in the penis. I have a history of aas use for bodybuilding purposes (stopped that in 2005), experimenting with trt and clomid restarts. Anecdotally I am confident the venous insufficiency caused ed is down to the low test, because any time in my past that I have managed to raise my test with clomid etc things greatly improve.

Unfortunately results from clomid and hcg alone are short lived and I no realise I require trt for life.

I am wondering what the general consensus on going with a low dose approach to trt is? My thinking is trying to be superman causes your body to put a block on things and the treatment to become less effective. How about aim to be simply above average and to stay on that level. Make your body do as much as possible, but top things up a little. Something like:

100mg Test per week, split into 2 doses

400mg HCG per week, split into 2 doses

6mg Aromasin per week, just to keep E2 sides down but not lower things too much.

Other supplements I take daily are megadoses of vitamins, horny goat weed, maca, sea kelp, vitamin k + alfalfa, 10000iu vitamin d, apple cider vinegar, odourless garlic, ginkgo biloba.

I am in excellent help and my mood is very stable. I guess from treatment I am hoping for a significant improvement in libido, improvement in erection durations (currently I need a lot of and constant stimulation) and an improvement of body composition (I should look better for the work I put in to diet and workouts).

Feedback greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks,
Dan

 

[LW64]

Have you been to an actual doctor to verify all your self-diagnoses?

Some comments:

[1] 100 mg T split between two weekly doses is not low dose TRT. It is more like the starting point for getting your Total and Free T well into their normal ranges. This is a trial-and-error process. You start at that dose/frequency, monitor your Total T and E2 about once a month, and then adjust your dose to get respectable Total T/Free T levels whiled also monitoring how you feel.

[2] 200 IUs HCG twice a week is also a good starting point, but its best to get your T level into the comfort zone first, then add in HCG, monitor T and E2 once a month, and adjust dose/frequency from there.

[3] Aromasin: you dont add it unless you need it and your first priority should be to look for ways to exclude it from your protocol. AIs have side effects like tanking your E2, libido loss, and reducing bone density. If you must take it, you need to find the minimum amount necessary to get it to work. Again: trial-and-error.


You have to do this in stages:

[1] Get a respectable T level first, then
[2] add in HCG to determine optimal dose/frequency, then
[3] if necessary, use a minimal AI dose.

Trying to do all three things at once (like you're presently planning) will just about guarantee none of it will work and makes it imfuckingpossible to figure out where the problem is.

 

[Dan1985]

Many thanks for the reply.

Serum Testosterone 12.8 nmol/L
Serum LH 1.6 U/L
Serum FSH 1.7 U/L

The venous insufficiency is self diagnosed from countless reports I have read on similar cases. I live in the UK where it is near impossible to get any diagnostic testing done so I'm afraid must work anecdotally to an extent.

I appreciate the advice and agree I should start with just the testosterone and add hcg from there.

 

[Yowzer]

.3 CC TEST cypionate (60 mg/wk) along with hcg kept my t levels at about 1,000 so 100 mg is not likely to be low dose. I felt better on the .3 than I did at substantially higher doses and never had any estrogen problems. So more is not always better. Others can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe any supplementation that takes you higher than your natural level will shut things down completely through down regulation to get back to your natural level, assuming you are secondary.

 

[Dan1985]

I find that very encouraging Yowzer, thank you. Am I to assume from the way you worded your post that you no longer follow that protocol?

 

[beedix]

I've also found 100mg to be better than 200mg with the beneficial sides and less estrogen. I'm planning to reduce some further. I do spike my test on leg day with TNE suspension.

Less is indeed more sometimes. Also true with a moderate Tren cycle.

 

[Dan1985]

Thanks beedix. I am actually now considering starting on 60mg test and taking things from there.

Would anyone be able to shed some light from my blood test results above and the fact that I do respond in the short term to HCG and Clomid (whilst I am on them) am I primary or secondary?

 

[MR10X]

After doing 120 mg a week for 2 months my levels taken 3 days after an injection were:
TT 1580 (349-1197) High
FT 26.7 (6.6-48.1) High
E2 17.2 (25-50) Low

This was doing test E only,no other AAS and no AI or Serm.I would also suggest doing injections twice a week to keep from having spikes and lows from weekly injections......I would recommend the HCG injections Every three days since the half life is about 36 hours. although its harder to keep up with the days you do the injections,doing the test and HCG on the same day would keep things simpler.

 

[kenseth17cd]

I am on 40 MG's e4d and come back at 500 at trough.

 

[Dan1985]

Injections do not frighten me and in any case my girlfriend is a nurse so I will have no problem getting text book injections on tap.

I am thinking then to start with test cyp only at 75mg per week, split into 2 doses. For ease of accuracy in the barrel I am thinking 50mg on say Monday and 25mg on Thursday. On perhaps the 2nd or 3rd week I will add 400mg HCG per week, split into 2 doses on Tuesdays and Fridays. I will not take an AI, but have a stock of Aromasin, Tamoxifen and Cabergoline on hand for emergencies.

I believe my Test level translates to about 345 of your American units, so I will be very disappointed if this only takes me to 500 Kenseth. I would hope for at least 800.

 

[kenseth17cd]

At 800 many guys are going way too high. You need to test your shbg level and we can guide you from there. I do not have to use an ai my e2 stays at 32 or less. If my test was 800 my e2 would be over 50 and my free test would be super high causing issues.

 

[kenseth17cd]

Also the 50 on Monday and 25 on Thursday is not a good idea. Keep levels steady and stable. Try 35 Monday and 35 Thursday.

 

[Dan1985]

I guess the important thing is how you feel Kenseth. How is your mood, energy, libido and erections at those levels if you don't mind me asking?

 

[kenseth17cd]

Well I I'm 5"6 155 not very muscular but strength is good, libido is good enough for me to have intercourse 3-4x a week. Mood is down but due to bad job. Endurance is good. I can run a 6 minute mile, bench 135x20, I train mixed martial arts. Could things be better? Of course but this is the best regimen for me out of any I have tried. I have done 200mgs a week,100 MG's a week...... this works for me.

 

[Oregongearhead]

The bottom line for TRT is everyone is different . What works for one guy is too much for another . Trial & error applies here . 100mg/wk is just right for me (650TT/average)

 

[LW64]

I am thinking then to start with test cyp only at 75mg per week, split into 2 doses. For ease of accuracy in the barrel I am thinking 50mg on say Monday and 25mg on Thursday. On perhaps the 2nd or 3rd week I will add 400mg HCG per week, split into 2 doses on Tuesdays and Fridays. I will not take an AI, but have a stock of Aromasin, Tamoxifen and Cabergoline on hand for emergencies.

I believe my Test level translates to about 345 of your American units, so I will be very disappointed if this only takes me to 500 Kenseth. I would hope for at least 800.

NO! Spilt the dose EVENLY in half! Inject 38 mg twice a week.

Do NOT proceed to add HCG until you have labs from the T only protocol that tell you your T and Estradiol levels are ok. Do not use an AI at all while you optimize your T level.

You need to get your serum SHBG level measured, then use the following calculator to get your Free T into the normal rage:

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

The Free T normal range on the calculator is 10 to 25 ng/dL. You want to aim for a Total T level that puts your Free T in about the center of the normal Free T range. That would be something like a Free T of 16 ng/dL.

For example, if your SHBG is 25 nmol/L and your T level from injections is 550, your Free T would be 13.7 ng/dL. If that was your result you could increase your dose (keep each bi-weekly injection dose THE SAME) to get a Total T of 630. That gives you a Free T of 16 ng/dL. Put then numbers in and try it yourself.

 

[dyna5]

Have any of you guys tried 50 mgs 2x per week with good results.
It seems hair loss or prostate issues would be less likely with 50 mgs 2x per week opposed to 100mgs per week. Am i right with that assumption?

 

[Handle2]

After doing 120 mg a week for 2 months my levels taken 3 days after an injection were:
TT 1580 (349-1197) High
FT 26.7 (6.6-48.1) High
E2 17.2 (25-50) Low

This was doing test E only,no other AAS and no AI or Serm.I would also suggest doing injections twice a week to keep from having spikes and lows from weekly injections......I would recommend the HCG injections Every three days since the half life is about 36 hours. although its harder to keep up with the days you do the injections,doing the test and HCG on the same day would keep things simpler.

Why do you think your E2 is so low without using an AI? What part of the body are you injecting and are you injecting IM or subQ?

 

[Dan1985]

You are all so very helpful, thank you.

Ok so I am going to take 1.5cc of Test Cyp x2 per week (my test is 250mg per 1 ml) and get my test, e2 and shbg tested...I will try my GP for this, but almost certain I will end up having to pay privately.

 

[kenseth17cd]

If u do do 1.5cc of test that is 375 MG's with the strength of test you have. 1cc=250 mg.