First Cycle Question

[Idiot Savant]

Merry belated X-mas everyone,

Hope to call on the collective experience of the braintrust here to provide me with the information needed to use the right gear and design a first time cycle. I have been strength training since 97 and feel I have reached my given genetic potential.

Stats:

Age: 35 (yea, I'm old)
Height: 6'4"
Weight: 230 lbs
Body Fat: 14% - 15%

Goals: Looking to add 15-20 lbs over the course of an 8 week cycle, while lowering body fat %. Sheer mass is not as important to me as a physique of quality size, combined with a hard, cut look.

Deca/Winstrol/Proviron stack -

Week 1: Deca: 250-300mg/week
Winstrol: 50mg/every other day
Proviron: 50mg/every day

Week 2 - 8: Same as week 1

Week 9: Clomid - 100mg/ed

Week 10: Clomid - 50mg/ed

Week 11-12: Same as week 10


Are my goals a reasonable expectation for this cycle, or am I expecting too much?

What about the Clomid? I see a ton of detailed cycles posted with, often, only vague advice about ancillary drugs. The amount to use and particularly the timing seem to be the gray area for me, and Im sure, many others who dont want to look as uninformed as I seem by asking.

Thanks for any time and help.

 

[N4cer]

It looks like you've waited quite a while, and have some damned good size on your frame.

I have to ask some questions, because your post indicates that you lack understanding of AAS. You want to gain muscle AND lose BF all on a first cycle of deca/winny/proviron? Here's the problems:
#1 - Where's the test?
#2 - Winny EoD is a waste. The half-life is too short. Why do this?
#3 - Why are you using the Proviron? It's probably not going to add anything, since it's highly similar to winny only the winny is better.
#4 - If you use the Proviron, why EoD?

 

[jaysmithinwesson]

i would drop the deca add some prop. run prop and winny for 8 weeks then clomid for 3. to realy keep a more defined look run nolv during cycle to keep off water retention. do some more research on here for a while, that is the best advice you can get for now. good luck.

 

[Idiot Savant]

It looks like you've waited quite a while, and have some damned good size on your frame.

I have to ask some questions, because your post indicates that you lack understanding of AAS. You want to gain muscle AND lose BF all on a first cycle of deca/winny/proviron? Here's the problems:
#1 - Where's the test?
#2 - Winny EoD is a waste. The half-life is too short. Why do this?
#3 - Why are you using the Proviron? It's probably not going to add anything, since it's highly similar to winny only the winny is better.
#4 - If you use the Proviron, why EoD?

Hey N4cer, thanks for the follow-up,

You're 100% right. My knowledge of AAS is marginal, at best, compared to the regulars here. I'm sure I'll humble myself more than a few times before I understand all the subtle complexities of stacking like the majority of regulars here, so lets get started with the humbling process:

#1) I'm not sure I understand the vital importance of Test in my cycle. If it's simply a matter of the mass you can put on, then isn't Deca a comparable (if not complete) second choice? Or is the inclusion of Test needed as more of a synergist to get the whole anabolic cycle rolling?

#2) I understand the problem of the half-life of Winny. Would the problem of Winny EoD be solved by effectively halfing the dosage to every day, or is 20-25mg every day, not going to be enough?

#3) I was including Proviron primarily for it's antiestrogenic effects. Again this may be a glaring display of my lack of knowledge. Is the clomid as a follow-up is more than enough to take care of any (limited) estrogenic activity that may result from the Deca?

#4) In my original post I believe I listed the dosage for the Proviron as 50mg/every day.


Thanks again.

 

[N4cer]

My bad on the Proviron. That looks good.

The deal with test is that most people will experience depression and lack of motivation if running a testless cycle because your body's own test production will be non-existent. You'll feel like shit without test. Not to mention that YES, test is a great mass builder.

For a first cycle, I'd go with test only instead of deca. You could add in the winny if you like (and 25mg ED isn't really enough), but I don't agree with winny for a first cycle. I did it, and it fucked me up. Here's why:
Your first cycle, your're not used to all the extra weight and strength you put on. Then winny comes along during that cycle and makes your joints shit. So I twisted my ankle during my first cycle (week 7) and when it did, it broke both bones in the lower part of my left leg. I'm 98% sure it's because my joints were too weak from the winny.

I'd say just keep it simple for a first cycle:
Test prop 100mg EoD. Test will do just fine. I love it. And the short ester will make for more injections, but if your sides get too bad you can bail and it's out of your system in 3 days instead of 2 weeks with a longer ester.
Keep Nolva on hand in case of estrogenic sides.

IMHO, this is a perfect first cycle. It's simple enough to allow you to concentrate on what's really important to getting the most from a cycle: FOOD and REST

 

[Grizzly]

The remaining problem that N4cer forgot to address is your goals. Given your original cycle, even with all it's problems, the BEST you could expect would probably be a 15-20lb gain while trying to gain muslce(ie, eating a lot). YOu say that you want to gain 15-20 and lose bf, too? That's just not going to happen.

You may gain 5lbs and lose 5lbs of bf, that's possible give a good diet, but not what you want. Put simply, there are two ways to cycle. Bulk and cut. The only difference between the two is diet.

 

[N4cer]

Good catch, Grizzly.

For me I prefer to bulk with AAS and to cut without them. I don't compete, and can afford to lose muscle in the process of cutting. The muscle memory is good enough that it's not a big deal.

 

[Idiot Savant]

Thanks again for the feedback,

I obviously need to do some more homework on the subject. Just from reading the previous posts on the board, and the responses to mine it seems like the best advice for a first cycle is 'less is more'.

Best of the New Year to everyone.

 

[Southernjuice]

Test alone is a good cycle for a beginner....stretch that cycle to 12 weeks and you could gain 25lbs or so.Gaining muscle and losing bf is difficult at best.Prop 100mgs EOD or test cyp or enanth at 500mgs qwk bro...should'nt be any need for anti-e's but have them on hand......clomid post-cycle. 300mgs two weeks after last inj (if using the longer esters) then 100mgs qday for a wk then 50mgs qday for a wk. Done...might give ya 5-8lbs of keepable muscle and that's a good cycle goal.

 

[joe shmoe]

i agree with grizzly that building muscle and losing fat is very very difficult to do. you could maintain current BF% and still gain muscle though.

N4cer is right as far as keeping it simple. yes, test prop at 100mg/EOD would do good. and as he mentioned, if things get bad, its out of your system in a matter of days. my only problem with prop is the EOD injectios and the pain/knots i get from it.

as southern juice said, i prefer enanthate over prop. less frequent injections and less painful. atleast for me. 500mg/Wk is a good dose for a beginner.

have the anti-e's and clomid ready.

eat alot of the right foods. train correctly. rest enough. shoot AAS. grow.

have a nice day

 

[Grizzly]

Done...might give ya 5-8lbs of keepable muscle and that's a good cycle goal.

What? 5-8lbs. That's nuts. He can easily keep the very vast majority of the 25 hypothetical lbs.

 

[Southernjuice]

What? 5-8lbs. That's nuts. He can easily keep the very vast majority of the 25 hypothetical lbs.

If he ain't gonna use anti-e's then alot of his weight will be water bro.I suppose i'm thinking of my cycles now instead of my first though, guess I probably kept about 15 of the 28lbs I gained.Alot of mistakes newcomers make that keep them from keeping the weight is that they do not continue what they were doing to get it...training,eating,supplements ect....