PrimoE/HCG Cruise during preparation for fertility

[TRT@40]

I am on doctor prescribed TRT since the age of 40.
For the past 6 weeks, on a cruise of 150mg/wk of TestCyp, 350mg/wk of PrimoE and 3ius/day of HGH. Now I need to prepare for fertility. For fertility, Urologist and endocrinologist have prescribed me 75ius of FSH EOD, 1000ius of HCG EOD, 25mg of aromasin ED, and was told to drop test to 50-100mg/wk.
Previously 1000ius of HCG alone EOD put my test level around 600. During this fertility preparation period, now I am wondering if I should drop test completely since HCG will get my test level to the upper end of normal range and keep primo at around 350mg/wk which will help to preserve lean muscle mass gained. This way I can trade the suppression by test with primo e and primo causes less suppression than test.

The following are 2 options I am thinking about:
Option 1
Continue with the original cruise of 150mg/wk of TestCyp, 350mg/wk of PrimoE and 3ius/day of HGH along with 75ius of FSH EOD, 1000ius of HCG EOD, 25mg of aromasin ED since HCG will get intra-testicular testosterone production going where it is needed for sperm and FSH will exert its function for Sertolli cells. Follow this for 2 months then get blood test and sperm test done to decide next course of action. If sperm test is poor, i will drop test and primo completely.
Option 2
Option 1 without TestCyp. Benefit is lower level of suppression since only suppressive compound is primo and primo is less suppresive than test

What do you guys think?
I know @The Terminator will have a useful response.

 

[1500club]

If you are trying to conceive, no exogenous testosterone will likely give you the best chance.

Only problem is, you won’t be horny

 

[TRT@40]

Yes, @1500club , this is especially true if one is not using HCG. In my case, I am taking 1000ius EOD which gets my test towards the high end of normal range and estrogen also gets really high for which i am taking aromasin every day. I am also taking cialis about 3 times a week as a preworkout; helps with wood and blood pressure also.

 

[The Terminator]

If you’re going to take aas I would go with the option of no testosterone since the hCG will keep you in a good range. For me hCG gets me hornier than testosterone. Then if SA is not so good drop the primo. If it were I’d drop all aas but such a low dose probably won’t make such a difference. Also I’d wait at least 3 months to do an SA as it takes about that long for spermatogenisis, could take longer to see results if it’s currently not so good.

 

[Mimmik]

I am on doctor prescribed TRT since the age of 40.
For the past 6 weeks, on a cruise of 150mg/wk of TestCyp, 350mg/wk of PrimoE and 3ius/day of HGH. Now I need to prepare for fertility. For fertility, Urologist and endocrinologist have prescribed me 75ius of FSH EOD, 1000ius of HCG EOD, 25mg of aromasin ED, and was told to drop test to 50-100mg/wk.
Previously 1000ius of HCG alone EOD put my test level around 600. During this fertility preparation period, now I am wondering if I should drop test completely since HCG will get my test level to the upper end of normal range and keep primo at around 350mg/wk which will help to preserve lean muscle mass gained. This way I can trade the suppression by test with primo e and primo causes less suppression than test.

The following are 2 options I am thinking about:
Option 1
Continue with the original cruise of 150mg/wk of TestCyp, 350mg/wk of PrimoE and 3ius/day of HGH along with 75ius of FSH EOD, 1000ius of HCG EOD, 25mg of aromasin ED since HCG will get intra-testicular testosterone production going where it is needed for sperm and FSH will exert its function for Sertolli cells. Follow this for 2 months then get blood test and sperm test done to decide next course of action. If sperm test is poor, i will drop test and primo completely.
Option 2
Option 1 without TestCyp. Benefit is lower level of suppression since only suppressive compound is primo and primo is less suppresive than test

What do you guys think?
I know @The Terminator will have a useful response.

From a guy who went through the exact same thing, save yourself and the old lady the heartache and trouble of trying to conceive while on trt. I was too afraid to come off of trt so I tried HCG, HMG, and so many other combos for a year and a half with no success in conceiving. She was so depressed to the point where I remember her saying “maybe we just weren’t meant to have kids together”. That broke me and I gave up the trt that day.

I went to a true fertility doc and told him what I was doing drug wise and he told me to quit the trt and prescribed me HCG and Clomid, HCG for 30 days and 2 months worth of Clomid. He said it takes about 3 months for sperm to be in your ejaculate so we will meet again in 4 months to see where you’re at. Well on day 90, literally, the wife got sick and took a pregnancy test and boom! Positive!

Yea I lost some size at the time and my test only came up to 162, but we conceived no problem. As soon as we heard the heartbeat I went back on trt. A few months after our daughter was born I was about to repeat the process to try again, but to our surprise it wasn’t necessary. The wife’s milk supply was drying up and she was freaking out. After feeling run down one day she took a test and to our surprise...positive again. Irish twins baby. Lol.

Anyways, just sharing my personal story for you. I’d drop any and all AAS, but HGH is no problem to keep using. I took many things and I was on trt for almost 11 years straight before this so I believe anyone can come back since I did so easily. Just don’t be afraid to give up the trt. By the way, I’m 6’ 260lbs so the time off didn’t hurt me in the long run. Good luck!

 

[TRT@40]

Thank you, @Mimmik , for taking the time to share your positive story and offering your suggestions.

I know how stressful it is when trying without success. We were blessed with our first child with IVF after we tried for years; my lady had some uterine issues. This was before I got on TRT.
For the upcoming conception, I want to do my part to make sure my sperm analysis is better than average; will do whatever is needed.

What was your protocol for HCG and clomid?

My pre-TRT blood test showed LH was in the middle of the normal range but FSH was at the low end of the normal range therefore i think my spermatogenesis would benefit from continuing FSH injections.

 

[Mimmik]

HCG from Doc was...
Week 1 - 5000iu Sunday/Wednesday
Weeks 2-4 - 1500iu Sunday/Wednesday

Couldn’t tell you what the Clomid dosage was to save my life. I remember bitching about the HCG because it’s $90 for 11000iu from the pharmacy and I needed 3 bottles if I remember correctly. Insurance covered the Clomid but not the HCG.

Now you may not need a blast of HCG in the beginning like I did since you’re already on it, but I was on nothing at the time and the doc wanted me to front load. It does suppress the system so he advised me to stop at 4 weeks and continue the Clomid for another month. I can’t say I really felt that bad when I was low but I definitely lost the normal sex drive. The wife and I went from 5-10x a week to damn near nothing which doesn’t help the wife’s anxiety about being good enough. Even though I warned her that would happen she still thought it had something to do with her.

 

[Millard]

This may or may not be relevant in this case but don't assume you have a problem until you do.

 

[Xlgx]

From a guy who went through the exact same thing, save yourself and the old lady the heartache and trouble of trying to conceive while on trt. I was too afraid to come off of trt so I tried HCG, HMG, and so many other combos for a year and a half with no success in conceiving. She was so depressed to the point where I remember her saying “maybe we just weren’t meant to have kids together”. That broke me and I gave up the trt that day.

I went to a true fertility doc and told him what I was doing drug wise and he told me to quit the trt and prescribed me HCG and Clomid, HCG for 30 days and 2 months worth of Clomid. He said it takes about 3 months for sperm to be in your ejaculate so we will meet again in 4 months to see where you’re at. Well on day 90, literally, the wife got sick and took a pregnancy test and boom! Positive!

Yea I lost some size at the time and my test only came up to 162, but we conceived no problem. As soon as we heard the heartbeat I went back on trt. A few months after our daughter was born I was about to repeat the process to try again, but to our surprise it wasn’t necessary. The wife’s milk supply was drying up and she was freaking out. After feeling run down one day she took a test and to our surprise...positive again. Irish twins baby. Lol.

Anyways, just sharing my personal story for you. I’d drop any and all AAS, but HGH is no problem to keep using. I took many things and I was on trt for almost 11 years straight before this so I believe anyone can come back since I did so easily. Just don’t be afraid to give up the trt. By the way, I’m 6’ 260lbs so the time off didn’t hurt me in the long run. Good luck!

Best advice!!!

Hope it works for me too

 

[Mac11wildcat]

This may or may not be relevant in this case but don't assume you have a problem until you do.

This x1000; needs to be the standard thought process for 90% of problems posted here regarding fertility, estrogen, etc

 

[TRT@40]

This x1000; needs to be the standard thought process for 90% of problems posted here regarding fertility, estrogen, etc

Agree with you guys; I will do a blood and sperm test at 90 day mark of taking 1000IUs of HCG EOD, 75IUs of FSH/Menopur EOD, 25 mg of Aromasin along with my "lowered cruise" of 105mg/wk of TestCyp and 280mg/wk of PrimoE.
On a previous cycle that included Deca which is really suppressive, and higher doses of Primo and Test, I had some sperm count around 5million but motility and morphology was also quite degraded relative to before TRT. This cycle was 650mg/wk of PrimoE, 350mg/wk of TestE and 250mg/wk of Deca.
Given my current cruise is much lower doses than the previous blast when spermatagenesis was degraded and now I am taking HCG and FSH, I might not have any issues with spermatogenesis but the upcoming blood and sperm test will it clear.

 

[Millard]

Agree with you guys; I will do a blood and sperm test at 90 day mark of taking 1000IUs of HCG EOD, 75IUs of FSH/Menopur EOD, 25 mg of Aromasin along with my "lowered cruise" of 105mg/wk of TestCyp and 280mg/wk of PrimoE.
On a previous cycle that included Deca which is really suppressive, and higher doses of Primo and Test, I had some sperm count around 5million but motility and morphology was also quite degraded relative to before TRT. This cycle was 650mg/wk of PrimoE, 350mg/wk of TestE and 250mg/wk of Deca.
Given my current cruise is much lower doses than the previous blast when spermatagenesis was degraded and now I am taking HCG and FSH, I might not have any issues with spermatogenesis but the upcoming blood and sperm test will it clear.

I assume you are submitting to all of this testing because you've been unsuccessfully trying to conceive for some time? This wasn't obvious to me from your original post.

 

[cobra500]

I went through the same situation many years ago. The best option like someone stated above is to go to a fertility doctor and do what they say. There is no way around it.
I had zero sperm, dropped test, used hcg daily as prescribed and had fertility tests monthly to track sperm. Within 1 month had had sperm production again, 2 months later I was at normal production again. After that the first time we tried we got pregnant.

Will it suck when you go off test, yep, will you feel like crap, yep, will you suffer, yep but once you you get pregnant after the three month marker you can go back on. You'll have incredible results, gain back all you might have lost and more and most importantly once you hold and look into your baby's eyes you'll forget all the suffering and never regret going through it.

 

[TRT@40]

I assume you are submitting to all of this testing because you've been unsuccessfully trying to conceive for some time? This wasn't obvious to me from your original post.

Since our child, we had not been actively trying to conceive due to relationship issues we were having that are resolved now but we were not using any birth control either.
On a previous cruise, 1.5yrs ago, that included Deca which is really suppressive, and higher doses of Primo and Test, I had some sperm count around 5million but motility and morphology was also quite degraded relative to before TRT. I think this is partly the reason for lack pregnancy.
Now that i am taking 1000ius of HCG EOD, 75ius of FSH EOD and 25mg of Aromasin ED, I am hoping sperm count, morphology and motility would at least return to baseline even though I am taking 105mg/wk of test, lower than the TRT dose, and 280mg/wk of primo and no highly suppressive AAS.
What I am really trying to do is keep the gains as much as possible while restarting to produce healthy sperm. I have personal data based reasons believe this is possible for me; ie producing a few million sperm while being on deca and 2.5 times my current cruise dose of primo and test.
I will do the tests at 90 days mark, share the results with the community here whether good or bad.
What is your opinion on all of this?
And do you or anyone else know how suppressive is primobolan relative to test or any other compound?
Sorry for the long post.
Cheers...

 

[TRT@40]

I went through the same situation many years ago. The best option like someone stated above is to go to a fertility doctor and do what they say. There is no way around it.
I had zero sperm, dropped test, used hcg daily as prescribed and had fertility tests monthly to track sperm. Within 1 month had had sperm production again, 2 months later I was at normal production again. After that the first time we tried we got pregnant.

Will it suck when you go off test, yep, will you feel like crap, yep, will you suffer, yep but once you you get pregnant after the three month marker you can go back on. You'll have incredible results, gain back all you might have lost and more and most importantly once you hold and look into your baby's eyes you'll forget all the suffering and never regret going through it.

Thanks you sharing your experience and input.
I definitely agree with you on "most importantly once you hold and look into your baby's eyes you'll forget all the suffering and never regret going through it."

Because I knew that there is good chance we might want another child in the future, I did see a fertility doctor who recommended I see endocrinologist/urologist after I told him I am on TRT. He did sperm test anyways while I was on 650mg/wk of PrimoE, 350mg/wk of TestE and 250mg/wk of Deca. To my surprise, test came back with a few million sperm count and poor morphology and motility. This was after being on TRT for almost 2 years, blasting and cruising for 1 year.

The Urologist prescribed me 1000ius of HCG EOD, 75ius of FSH EOD, 25mg of Aromasin ED, and 100mg of Test. He told me to follow this for 90 days and then do sperm and blood test. He said based on results, I may have to drop the test.
So the only extra compound I am adding to my cruise is now 280mg/wk of primo e. The reason why I think I have a descent chance of producing healthy sperm while being on this cruise is because I was producing sperm even on a fully blown cycle.
But if the sperm test to come at 90 day mark dictates, I drop everything except for HCG, FSH and aromasin, I will without a question.

 

[cobra500]

Having sperm production and having healthy sperm production are two completely different things as you know. Bite the bullet and do it right from the beginning. Do you want to change something being wrong with your potential child because you wanted to keep your gains? Think long term not short, imo.

 

[Whoremoans]

Since our child, we had not been actively trying to conceive due to relationship issues we were having that are resolved now but we were not using any birth control either.
On a previous cruise, 1.5yrs ago, that included Deca which is really suppressive, and higher doses of Primo and Test, I had some sperm count around 5million but motility and morphology was also quite degraded relative to before TRT. I think this is partly the reason for lack pregnancy.
Now that i am taking 1000ius of HCG EOD, 75ius of FSH EOD and 25mg of Aromasin ED, I am hoping sperm count, morphology and motility would at least return to baseline even though I am taking 105mg/wk of test, lower than the TRT dose, and 280mg/wk of primo and no highly suppressive AAS.
What I am really trying to do is keep the gains as much as possible while restarting to produce healthy sperm. I have personal data based reasons believe this is possible for me; ie producing a few million sperm while being on deca and 2.5 times my current cruise dose of primo and test.
I will do the tests at 90 days mark, share the results with the community here whether good or bad.
What is your opinion on all of this?
And do you or anyone else know how suppressive is primobolan relative to test or any other compound?
Sorry for the long post.
Cheers...

He’s basically saying that all the extra drugs aren’t necessary unless you KNOW you cannot conceive without them. Have you already tried while on TRT?

 

[TRT@40]

Having sperm production and having healthy sperm production are two completely different things as you know. Bite the bullet and do it right from the beginning. Do you want to change something being wrong with your potential child because you wanted to keep your gains? Think long term not short, imo.

Cobra500 brother you definitely have inarguable point about the potential impact of AAS on the health of a baby conceived while being on gear other than exogenous testosterone.
Your post made think about something I have thought about before especially the use of generic hgh and its potential effect on baby health. To be safe, I should stop the use of generic hgh and instead buy pharma grade hgh.
What is your view on this?
In addition, I was of the opinion that generic hgh would have more of the potential to negatively impact the health of the baby than low dose primo.
Thanks again for your time to reply to this thread to help me out.

 

[Krazyhippy]

I went through the same situation many years ago. The best option like someone stated above is to go to a fertility doctor and do what they say. There is no way around it.
I had zero sperm, dropped test, used hcg daily as prescribed and had fertility tests monthly to track sperm. Within 1 month had had sperm production again, 2 months later I was at normal production again. After that the first time we tried we got pregnant.

Will it suck when you go off test, yep, will you feel like crap, yep, will you suffer, yep but once you you get pregnant after the three month marker you can go back on. You'll have incredible results, gain back all you might have lost and more and most importantly once you hold and look into your baby's eyes you'll forget all the suffering and never regret going through it.

Is it really that bad coming off Test? I have been on it for 4 years and the wife and I want to have a baby, but I am completely shut down with zero sperm count. I am to afraid to come off TRT. I work a very physically demanding job and worried I wouldn't have any strength or will to work.

 

[TRT@40]

@Krazyhippy, How old are you brother? Did you do a sperm test to confirm you have zero sperm?
Yes, it sucks coming off of test cold turkey or even if you are PCTing. But on the positive side in your case, since you are very much shut down, you will need something like 1000IUs of HCG EOD to restart your shrunken testes. And important point about this much HCG is that It will likely raise exogenous test to higher end of the normal range. Keep in mind your estrogen will skyrocket on this much HCG and therefore will require an aromataze inhibitor. But HCG or Clomid will only work if you have secondary or tertiary hypogonadism meaning your balls are functional. Your first best bet is to try HCG with Clomid. Clomid will also help with FSH which is needed for spermatogonesis.
Supplementing with creatine with good BCAA, consuming more calories from good sources of food will help with maintaining strength. I hope others will chime in with ways to keep strength...