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Barbell rows discussion

lukiss96

lukiss96

Member
Let's talk barbell rows...

I currently do barbell rows 100kg (220lbs) 8x5 with decent form if I go heavier it gets very unfomfortable and tiring and works lower back too much. I'd like to progress but I'd like to stay away from using belts or other equipment. I can progress but I then sacrifice form more than I like to.

What's your numbers and how do you peform it. For heavy BB rowers any tips from you?
 
you do 8 sets of 5 on barbell rows? Why would you need that many work sets on one exercise?

"feels very uncomfortable and tiring"? You kinda sound like a pussy saying that but i hope its a misunderstanding on my part.

I can see the issue with your lower back depending on how you program around axial loading with regard to your leg and back work, how you position your hips/torse and using a belt would probably help that. If you dont want to use a belt or straps i suggest using a different exercise where the muscle you are trying to work is the limiting factor, not anything else.

Personally, i never found barbell rows to be a good exercise for hypertrophy so i stick to dumbbell rows, chest supported machine rows and cable rows. You get much more stimulus on the muscle as opposed to just tiring yourself out like you mentioned.

Listen to your biofeedback, if you dont feel the exercise, dont get sore where you want, dont get a good pump and you can do as many as 6-8 worksets without rep dropoff, its definetly not an exercise i would look at as efficient for my goal of hypertrophy.

tldr: i dont like barbell rows.
 
8 sets is excessive. If your goal is growth, stick to 2 all out sets. Maybe 1x6-8 and then a back off set of 1x1-15

Alternative if you want to give your low back a break is pendlay rows. Or alternate each workout
 
eery said:
feels very uncomfortable and tiring"
Click to expand...
Means that lower back wants to round more and more and it becomes exercise on it's own to keep it straight. Feels like I have more reps left.

eery said:
you do 8 sets of 5 on barbell rows
Click to expand...
8 reps 5 sets.

Thanks for help, but BB rows and seated cable rows are my favorite horizontal pull movements. One is easy to progress where other is causing difficulties to progress as it's becoming a challenge to hold it in place. It drags down and back wants to bend a lot more.

Up to 85kg I can rep out like mad with perfect form like 15-16x5... it becomes difficult when 100kg and over (220lbs for imperial people).

Trying to figure out how to get more control with heavy weights or just leave it as it is, but it's fun exercise.
 
lukiss96 said:
Means that lower back wants to round more and more and it becomes exercise on it's own to keep it straight. Feels like I have more reps left.


8 reps 5 sets.

Thanks for help, but BB rows and seated cable rows are my favorite horizontal pull movements. One is easy to progress where other is causing difficulties to progress as it's becoming a challenge to hold it in place. It drags down and back wants to bend a lot more.

Up to 85kg I can rep out like mad with perfect form like 15-16x5... it becomes difficult when 100kg and over (220lbs for imperial people).

Trying to figure out how to get more control with heavy weights or just leave it as it is, but it's fun exercise.
Click to expand...

try deadstop barbell rows, find a way to standardize your repetitions/technique and progress in reps and load over time. I suggest using a belt if stability feels like an issue.

If it just ends up feeling awkward, id swap the exercise for something better.

its 5 sets of 8, 5x8 by the way.
 
Last edited:
Why would you shy away from belts on a lift that stresses your lower back more than all other back muscles?

They’re a great bang for buck movement, but I no longer do them regularly because the stimulus (mostly lower back) and fatigue are too high. My rows are 365-405 for sets of 6-12. They’re a foundational movmeent, but if you can’t get stimulus where it needs to be why do them?
 
I'll what most said abou lower back strain, glutes, belts ... I too suffer from low back fatigue on rows. Every muscle on the body has a maximal volume it can handle. So either lower the number of sets or don't do some other exercise that fatigues your lower back.

One other thing you can do is, do an isolation exercise for lats (if you're targeting lats with bb rows) before doing the bb row. For instance, doing 2 sets of lat prayers and then proceed on doing 3 sets of bb rows. This way you wont need to lift so heavy on the rows and you'll have better mind muscle connection with the lats.

Compound exercises feel great BUT the cost benefit; system fatigue vs muscle hypertrophy, that you get isn't that great. Doing an isolation exercise before a compound, lowers this ratio, makes it more favourable, and this is especially beneficial in exercises that have some sort of a negative like bb rows have for you.

Also, doing knee extensions before front squats, doing hip thrusts before deadlifts, etc. are all completely useful workflow optimisations ...
 
Slowly work on adding more reps, once you are up to 10-15 reps at that weight add a bit of weight and see how you feel. Also I would echo previous comment about dropping the volume a bit if you want to increase strength. Perhaps do two warm up sets and 3-4 heavy sets.

Anything I do over 7 sets for is usually machine or cable... as the more volume I do. The more my form deteriorates.

Also how far are you bending over when performing your barbell rows?
 
lukiss96 said:
What's your numbers and how do you peform it.
Click to expand...

I do them stupidly light. Like 60kg.

I've dropped weights all around and started doing pre fatigue sets on almost all compound lifts. Also, I do the compound lifts as correctly as possible, so it's as hard as it can be. Used to chase numbers, now I chase optimisation, lowering systemic fatigue while optimizing hypertrophic response.

Barbel row can be used either to hit lats or as a general upper back (delts, lower traps and rhomboids) exercise. If I decide I want to grow lats, I'd do an isolation lat movement, 1 to 3 sets, and then do barbel rows, 2 - 3 sets, emphasizing keeping elbows as tucked in as possible (if you flare your elbows, you're working more the upper back) and keeping sure I am at a 50 to max 60% bent (more then that and you're doing traps). All the while keeping absolutely sure the work is being done by the lats and that the lats actually hit failure and not some other muscle group (like biceps for instance). You can't do this with heavy weight as you automatically start using all the muscles to help move the weight. Keeping weight low is the key to being able to isolate a muscle, imo.
 
Been enjoying landmine rows with a V bar and lat bar through the V bar. Going lighter more reps. Going heavy I like doing them on an incline bench. Chest/stomach on the bench....pull barbell up from ground.Also heavy on pendelay rows. I don't like going super heavy anymore because I had a left side inguinal hernia repaired and one day I'm going to need the right side repaired and this exercise seems to aggravate the unrepaired side just a tad.
 
Mac11wildcat said:
A 60kg barbell row for lats is a pretty inefficient and mechanically poor way to isolate lats.
Click to expand...

I just love your impulsive, totally self absorbed, narcissistic responses, randomly spread all over meso. The last one was about cardarine and cancer if memory serves right ... Yes, here we go. I presume a high androgen load is responsible for this behaviour, I understand, and am not judgemental, it's pretty obvious when somebody is on high androgens ... but I'm just pointing out to you, that you are "spewing knowledge" all over the place, like your word is the word of god.

And no, what I described works out wonderfully. On the bottom part of the movement, I let go off the scapula, so the back stretches out nicely (lats included, and remember, stretching under tension is very important for hypertrophy) and then on the concentric part, really concentrating on contracting the lats. I feel this in my lats Big time, compared to a heavier weight, where my arms and traps want to contribute to much. You don't need a lot of weight, especially if you really emphasize on making the movement pattern as difficult (correct) as possible. And not to forget, I do a pre fatigue, pump, exercise before this, which helps in dropping the weight at least 20% or more ... And it also helps with mind muscle connection, which again, helps in lowering the weight.
 
Jin23 said:
I just love your impulsive, totally self absorbed, narcissistic responses, randomly spread all over meso. The last one was about cardarine and cancer if memory serves right ... Yes, here we go. I presume a high androgen load is responsible for this behaviour, I understand, and am not judgemental, it's pretty obvious when somebody is on high androgens ... but I'm just pointing out to you, that you are "spewing knowledge" all over the place, like your word is the word of god.

And no, what I described works out wonderfully. On the bottom part of the movement, I let go off the scapula, so the back stretches out nicely (lats included, and remember, stretching under tension is very important for hypertrophy) and then on the concentric part, really concentrating on contracting the lats. I feel this in my lats Big time, compared to a heavier weight, where my arms and traps want to contribute to much. You don't need a lot of weight, especially if you really emphasize on making the movement pattern as difficult (correct) as possible. And not to forget, I do a pre fatigue, pump, exercise before this, which helps in dropping the weight at least 20% or more ... And it also helps with mind muscle connection, which again, helps in lowering the weight.
Click to expand...
Is he a narcissist or just really good? He is an IFBB pro bodybuilder, so I would say he has an expert opinion on matters of bodybuilding.
Not saying you're wrong in your training approach, and I hope not as I kinda do the same thing. Mac has paid his dues and has the trophies to prove his knowledge works. I think from what he has achieved his word should be taken a little more seriously. Just my 2cents.
We are actually lucky to have an IFBB pro take the time out of his day to help us all out.
 
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