HGH -- What do the results look like?

[PopeyeTheSailerDude]

Daily for decades and no tolerance? No increasing doses for the same effect? No rotating between strains? No horrible insomnia (the number #1 cause of relapse during an attempt at abstinence) if you *can't* use it for a couple of nights? You know exactly what I'm talking about.

Come on....

I have the highest tolerance possible lol. When I stopped adding tobacco even my friends stoped smoking with me. Horrible insomnia is the reason I started, even as a child before I discovered weed I had trouble sleeping. If I don’t smoke yeah I don’t sleep well at all.
It’s only now I’m trying to slow down and why I asked about hgh. If hgh could put me to sleep then maybe I could cut out the daily necessity for smoking.

 

[PopeyeTheSailerDude]

i still have crazy wild dreams all the time. people say weed stops you dreaming or remembering them... not me.

That’s crazy tbh, I thought it stoped it for everyone. You smoke right before bed to sleep?

 

[grotbags]

as i type this its 23:34 in the uk, im sat with my joint of flapjacks rosin and bottle of water ill be going to bed in 15 mins.... sweet dreams.

 

[TheCup]

Bit o’ nonsense that not feelin’ a thing on 3iu, but truth is nothin’ does the trick if your diet’s off and your recovery’s a shambles.

 

[TheCup]

3 IU is closer to an "anti-aging" dose, not a body recomp or recovery dose

Depending on how much body fat you have to lose, a GLP1 will get you much further than GH (if it's a lot of fat, may consider tirz instead of reta)

Ah now, that’s not true, is it mate? You don’t build muscle from HGH without either AAS or insulin, but even small doses HGH have massive synergy with ASS and insulin and contribute to hypertrophy when mixed with one or the other, or both.

At low doses, without either of them, you still get solid recovery. Better sleep and fat melting off already around 1.2 IU for me. Max fat loss hits around 2.5 IU. Going above 3 doesn’t change any fat loosing thing for me, not if the diet and training stay the same. I’ve logged it all, and I’ve run it up to 12 IU.

Over 4 IU the side effects kick in hard. These days I rarely go above 2.5. though sometimes near a comp I’ll push 4 to 5 IU, split into two hits of 2 to 3 IU. But the sides get nasty past that, and at lower doses I get none.

 

[Mariafitness]

First injection, 2.5iu - brainfog and bloat. will this pass or should i lower the dose? will take it at night it ruined my entire day. felt like i took melatonin

 

[amazonas]

First injection, 2.5iu - brainfog and bloat. will this pass or should i lower the dose? will take it at night it ruined my entire day. felt like i took melatonin

Bloat is normal in the beginning, brainfog is placebo lol , some people myself included, can't take HGH at night, it wrecks our sleep, so we take it in the morning instead. Also, the bloat will go away on its own as the body gets used to the extra amount of GH, 3-4 weeks, i would say.

 

[Psy-chonaut]

First injection, 2.5iu - brainfog and bloat. will this pass or should i lower the dose? will take it at night it ruined my entire day. felt like i took melatonin

I had to do 2Iu for a couple of weeks+, before my body adjusted, and I went up- all my nerve endings in my arms hurt like hell - like I had the flu... And I turned into a pretty water buffalo *looool*

Options : Try pre bed -> lower the dose a bit -> split am/pm.
I would not play around with IM shots yet... (Higher peak)

Just some options I played with, I can’t do shots to late pm, it somehow fucks my sleep....

Play around with it, if it goes south just start over - hgh is not for everybody .... God luck!

 

[Ghoul]

First injection, 2.5iu - brainfog and bloat. will this pass or should i lower the dose? will take it at night it ruined my entire day. felt like i took melatonin

Because women don't convert GH to IGF at as high a rate as men, circulating GH blood levels stay higher for longer. GH is the primary driver of sodium retention, and therefore bloat / edema. So having a reaction like yours is unsurprising, it's equivalent to a male starting off at a high dose.

IMO just lower the dose to 2, or 1.5, and give your body time to acclimate before going back up. Sodium and water retention often equalize in a month or so, and you can try increasing the dose then.

The good news is this increased circulating GH in women also has a greater fat burning effect as well.


Stop reading here if you're not interested in scientific minutia irrelevant to fixing this lol
----------------
You can see this effect in one of the tables from the IM vs SubQ study I posted in the other thread. For technical reasons this difference between sexes is more pronounced at lower / slower (SubQ) doses.

AUC is "total exposure" to GH
MRT is "Mean residence time" how long GH actively circulates before elimination.
CL/F is the time to be fully cleared

All of these are much higher in some of the female subjects (highlighted in violet) than males. Estrogen levels and birth control use accounts for the wide variation between women, since E2 plays a role in determining how much GH is converted to IGF, and how much GH is left in circulation:

 

[Psy-chonaut]

Because women don't convert GH to IGF at as high a rate as men, circulating GH blood levels stay higher for longer. GH is the primary driver of sodium retention, and water retention. So having a reaction like yours is unsurprising, it's equivalent to a male starting off at a high dose.

IMO just lower the dose to 2, or 1.5, and give your body time to acclimate before going back up. Sodium and water retention often equalize in a month or so, and you can try increasing the dose then.

The good news is this increased circulating GH in women also has a greater fat burning effect as well.


Stop reading here if you're not interested in scientific minutia irrelevant to fixing this lol
----------------
You can see this effect in one of the tables from the IM vs SubQ study I posted in the other thread. For technical reasons this difference between sexes is more pronounced at lower / slower (SubQ) doses.

AUC is "total exposure" to GH
MRT is "Mean residence time" how long GH actively circulates before elimination.
CL/F is the time to be fully cleared

All of these are much higher in some of the female subjects (highlighted in violet) than males. Estrogen levels and birth control use accounts for the wide variation between women, since the E2 plays a big role in determining how much GH is converted to IGF, and how much GH is left in circulation:

View attachment 334827

Think big bodybuilding with Dr Scott Stevenson. Had a small podcast about IM/sub-q a month ago, I think the study he presented was an old one from 92' - but I always get amazed how much numbers differs from one individual to the next, person 'A' respond like Crazy, person 'B' meeeeh not so much...

 

[Ghoul]

Think big bodybuilding with Dr Scott Stevenson. Had a small podcast about IM/sub-q a month ago, I think the study he presented was an old one from 92' - but I always get amazed how much numbers differs from one individual to the next, person 'A' respond like Crazy, person 'B' meeeeh not so much...

What surprised me most from this study was that IM administration gets more "use" out of a dose of rHGH before it's cleared from the body. It's not just a "higher peak faster drop" of GH, but you get more
total functional exposure to it vs subQ. IM is the equivalent of injecting more IUs.

Still, I'd rather double the dose to get the same effect than pin IM every day.

 

[Psy-chonaut]

What surprised me most from this study was that IM administration gets more "use" out of a dose of rHGH before it's cleared from the body. It's not just a "higher peak faster drop" of GH, but you get more
total functional exposure to it vs subQ. IM is the equivalent of injecting more IUs.

Still, I'd rather double the dose to get the same effect than pin IM every day.

*loooool*
I actually went IM right after I saw it! - - with the same dose - -> And surely it fucked me up, and I felt bloody off and sick...

So now I am back to old sub-q - but maybe I Will play with it in the future... And lower my dose = live and learn

 

[Ghoul]

*loooool*
I actually went IM right after I saw it! - - with the same dose - -> And surely it fucked me up, and I felt bloody off and sick...

So now I am back to old sub-q - but maybe I Will play with it in the future... And lower my dose = live and learn

Another study linked the size of the GH spike to frequency and intensity of rHGH side effects, so that might be why that happened to you with IM. High concentration is absorbed more quickly, so if you dilute the dose with more BAC, the spike is reduced. Might be worth a try.

 

[Photon]

What surprised me most from this study was that IM administration gets more "use" out of a dose of rHGH before it's cleared from the body. It's not just a "higher peak faster drop" of GH, but you get more
total functional exposure to it vs subQ. IM is the equivalent of injecting more IUs.

Still, I'd rather double the dose to get the same effect than pin IM every day.

The bioavability of IM is probably higher than subQ.

I have not really looked into this but do you know if acromegaly is primarily due to higher IGF or GH levels? (Yes ofc, GH converts to IGF, but we can manipulate it via subQ or IM)

 

[Ghoul]

The bioavability of IM is probably higher than subQ.

I have not really looked into this but do you know if acromegaly is primarily due to higher IGF or GH levels? (Yes ofc, GH converts to IGF, but we can manipulate it via subQ or IM)

IGF causes the overgrowth of acromegaly.

(but as you know the root cause is too much GH)

Women get acromegaly at the same rate as men, but because estrogen blunts conversion of GH to IGF symptoms (and diagnosis) happens much later.

After menopause they lose this protection and there's a big jump in acromegaly diagnosis in women.

Interesting fact is prior to acromegaly symptoms appearing, women with pituitary tumors producing hyper levels of GH often have very lean physiques from the enhanced fat burning high levels of circulating GH provide.

Eventually if the tumor continue to grow though, GH levels exceed estrogen IGF blunting and acromegaly symptoms begin to appear.

 

[Mariafitness]

I had to do 2Iu for a couple of weeks+, before my body adjusted, and I went up- all my nerve endings in my arms hurt like hell - like I had the flu... And I turned into a pretty water buffalo *looool*

Options : Try pre bed -> lower the dose a bit -> split am/pm.
I would not play around with IM shots yet... (Higher peak)

Just some options I played with, I can’t do shots to late pm, it somehow fucks my sleep....

Play around with it, if it goes south just start over - hgh is not for everybody .... God luck!

So the body acually get used to it and down regulate the water retention over time? will try 1iu instead. wait a day and let the water go out..

Yes! i had the same nerve pain. it was bizzare

 

[Mariafitness]

*loooool*
I actually went IM right after I saw it! - - with the same dose - -> And surely it fucked me up, and I felt bloody off and sick...

So now I am back to old sub-q - but maybe I Will play with it in the future... And lower my dose = live and learn

Interesting. so maby one should start with subq when starting GH to let the body get used to the effect, as less will be taken up and give sides..

 

[Ghoul]

So the body acually get used to it and down regulate the water retention over time? will try 1iu instead. wait a day and let the water go out..

Yes! i had the same nerve pain. it was bizzare

Yeah the nerve pain is from soft tissues swelling up with water putting pressure on nerves. It's not "real" carpal tunnel when it happens in hands, and reverses quickly.

Long term use of high doses can cause real tissue growth inducing actual carpel tunnel, but that's pretty uncommon.

 

[Photon]

IGF causes the overgrowth of acromegaly.

(but as you know the root cause is too much GH)

Women get acromegaly at the same rate as men, but because estrogen blunts conversion of GH to IGF symptoms (and diagnosis) happens much later.

After menopause they lose this protection and there's a big jump in acromegaly diagnosis in women.

Interesting fact is prior to acromegaly symptoms appearing, women with pituitary tumors producing hyper levels of GH often have very lean physiques from the enhanced fat burning high levels of circulating GH provide.

Eventually if the tumor continue to grow though, GH levels exceed estrogen IGF blunting and acromegaly symptoms begin to appear.

Which means, in theory, you can use 10% more GH, inject IM, and have the same chance/rate of acromegaly as one who does this subQ, while reaping the extra benefits from the higher GH levels due to greater bioavability.

 

[Ateam2023]

what im getting out of this discussion is
IM= higher,quicker peak;shorter duration
SQ= Lower, slower peak, longer duration; similar total bioavailability and clinical effect,,
bioavailability is determined by the total amount of hormone absorbed into the bloodstream "over time", and not just by "peak concentration",