Minimum Nandrolone dose before neurotoxicity

[Ricky93]

Nandrolone causes neurotoxicity beyond a certain dose. I remember watching some YouTube 'guru' saying there was a study up to 62.5mg a week had no neurotoxicity.
Trying to confirm that. Maybe some Meso member knows what I'm talking about.

Before u ask why such a stupid low dose, I grow on NPP like nothing else so a low dose long-term can go a long way.

 

[RockyP]

I used NPP quite a bit in my 20’s and have returned to it in my 40’s with great effect and no issues I can ascertain. I run low end dosages tho, usually 150 mg weekly with test and sometimes masteron. Sadly I don’t know if any specific dosage beyond which neurotoxicity becomes an issue but my guess is that it’s like other effects / side effects meaning it’s somewhat dependent on cumulative exposure (average dosage * time used (area under the curve)), and also a product of genetics.

 

[Ricky93]

I used NPP quite a bit in my 20’s and have returned to it in my 40’s with great effect and no issues I can ascertain. I run low end dosages tho, usually 150 mg weekly with test and sometimes masteron. Sadly I don’t know if any specific dosage beyond which neurotoxicity becomes an issue but my guess is that it’s like other effects / side effects meaning it’s somewhat dependent on cumulative exposure (average dosage * time used (area under the curve)), and also a product of genetics.

I know it causes neurotoxicity even at previous therapeutic doses(100-200mg). That's why I want to be at a very low dose long-term, mainly for gains because it develops my delts like nothing else I've tried.

 

[RockyP]

I know it causes neurotoxicity even at previous therapeutic doses(100-200mg). That's why I want to be at a very low dose long-term, mainly for gains because it develops my delts like nothing else I've tried.

Not questioning this as I have heard this also but do you have any references speaking to the clinical significance? Like are we talking neuropathy, cognitive dysfunction? I started and sold 2 companies when on NPP and I don’t seem to have any cognitive / neuro issues. I might in a few decades but idk how I’d attribute that to nandrolone

 

[Sailor28]

I'm prescribed 60mg weekly, but run 90mg. I don't think there's a definitive link that it causes cognitive decline or brain damage in humans at therapeutic doses.

 

[RockyP]

I'm prescribed 60mg weekly, but run 90mg. I don't think there's a definitive link that it causes cognitive decline or brain damage in humans at therapeutic doses.

I was prescribed 100 mg weekly of Deca for 10 weeks at a time. I just prefer NPP. I’ve never run more than 200 mg nandrolone per week.

 

[BamaCrazy]

All anabolic steroids including testosterone can cause neurodegeneration. You will likely struggle to determine what dosage of each drug can cause neurological issues.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039128X2200160X

“Supraphysiological doses of testosterone can have neurotoxic effects on different cell types, including neurons [6], [7], [8]. High doses of androgens have been shown to contribute to neurodegeneration, decreased brain-derived neurotrophic factor, increased inflammation, and decreased neuronal density in animal studies, which may correspond to changes in mood, cognition, and aggression [9]. The use of AASs in supraphysiological doses, is associated with physiological, cognitive and brain abnormalities similar to those found in people at probable risk of developing Alzheimer's disease and its dementias (AD/ADRD), which are associated with elevated levels of β brain amyloid (Aβ) and hyperphosphorylated tau protein (tau-P) levels.”

 

[Ricky93]

That's correct. "Suprapsychological". I know any Nandrolone u take is going to be supra since it exists in the human body at very minor concentrations. What I'm trying to know is the upper limit before really bad decline starts.

 

[readalot]

That's correct. "Suprapsychological". I know any Nandrolone u take is going to be supra since it exists in the human body at very minor concentrations. What I'm trying to know is the upper limit before really bad decline starts.

For you? Impossible to say until you try it.

R

Post in thread 'Is William Llewellyn book with it?'

Jan 18, 2024

True, though while I regard Duchaine's USH II as required reading for everyone, it contains a ton of outdated info with respect to available compounds. A lot of it is opinion, also.

Holding up pretty well over 30 years later (1989)...

• readalot

• 
• 
• 

You can read everything ever written and the best you will do is a range.

Ask me how I know.

Good Luck.

 

[readalot]

but my guess is that it’s like other effects / side effects meaning it’s somewhat dependent on cumulative exposure (average dosage * time used (area under the curve)), and also a product of genetics

 

[Ricky93]

For you? Impossible to say until you try it.

That's the problem. I don't want to find out the hard way.
Could be on it a couple years thinking it's safe and then any cognitive decline I notice won't even know if it's age related...

 

[RockyP]

That's the problem. I don't want to find out the hard way.
Could be on it a couple years thinking it's safe and then any cognitive decline I notice won't even know if it's age related...

My man, I am very very neurotic about this stuff so I can 100% relate to this. Cognitive decline is so incredibly multifactorial, due to both known knowns, known unknowns, and all the rest. I may be going out on a limb here but I don’t think using low doses nandrolone will be the smoking gun if heaven forbid you experience a cognitive decline. And I’m not minimizing your concerns at all, but I will state the obvious: if you are that concerned about it, and if using nandrolone is going to keep you up at night with worry and negatively impact your quality of life, go with another anabolic.

 

[readalot]

That's the problem. I don't want to find out the hard way.
Could be on it a couple years thinking it's safe and then any cognitive decline I notice won't even know if it's age related...

You should not ab(use) AAS then. Pay to play Sir. Know that going in.

AAS and cigarettes are decent comparators IMO.

What percentage of people who smoke over 20 years+ die of cancer?

Let's not kid ourselves. This shit is bad for us. How bad is up to you.

 

[Ricky93]

My man, I am very very neurotic about this stuff so I can 100% relate to this. Cognitive decline is so incredibly multifactorial, due to both known knowns, known unknowns, and all the rest. I may be going out on a limb here but I don’t think using low doses nandrolone will be the smoking gun if heaven forbid you experience a cognitive decline. And I’m not minimizing your concerns at all, but I will state the obvious: if you are that concerned about it, and if using nandrolone is going to keep you up at night with worry and negatively impact your quality of life, go with another anabolic.

The safest is test for sure but man, NPP made me look insane!! I'm an hyper responder to it 100%. Not even Trestolone did anything similar.
Never tried Tren but IMO it should be reserved for the elites. At least not for me at this point in my life.

 

[readalot]

The safest is test for sure but man, NPP made me look insane!! I'm an hyper responder to it 100%. Not even Trestolone did anything similar. Never tried Tren.

The Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the Central Nervous System - PMC

Nandrolone is included in the class II of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) which is composed of 19-nor-testosterone-derivates. In general, AAS is a broad and rapidly increasing group of synthetic androgens used both clinically and illicitly. AAS ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Pretty good overview.

 

[Ghoul]

That's the problem. I don't want to find out the hard way.
Could be on it a couple years thinking it's safe and then any cognitive decline I notice won't even know if it's age related...

Some of the most recent scientific thinking on Nadralone's observed neurotoxic effects is that what it's really doing is making the brain much more vulnerable to normal brain aging processes, cumulatively, based on total exposure, and possibly permanently. The worst of this would then be expected to be seen as former users hit the ages where degenerative brain process normally start to take a big toll among the "early agers", late 50s or so. So while the brain of 35 year old user may look ten years older than it should, the brain of a 60 year old former user may quickly decline to that of 95 year old with alzheimer's.

Of course it's difficult to study any group involved in illegal activity. People are reluctant to admit it, even (or especially) if they stopped long ago. Connecting the dots will be very difficult, but maybe they can track down some of the known users who volunteered to be in earlier studies.

I'll try to dig up the papers pointing in this direction I read a while back.

 

[RockyP]

We all know how poisonous alcohol is to our bodies and especially our CNS. But we all know (at least I do) lots of folks who lived well into their 80's and beyond enjoying plenty of alcohol, eating lots of shitty food, and smoking lots of tobacco. Facile analogies aside, it's very similar to an investment decision. Meaning that you have to commit capital now based upon a certain amount of known facts, your projections about the future, and a WHOLE lot of stuff that you know for sure is UNKNOWABLE. You can of course just put your money into a savings account or T bills and enjoy all the excitement that comes from that.

I for one am waiting with baited breath for the day when we learn that our beloved GLP-1 drugs cause god knows what kinds of horrible illnesses.

I'll reiterate what I said before about quality of life. If it is really that worrisome I would really suggest just going in a different direction. Spoiler alert is that in excess dosages even our favorite "safe" compounds become very unsafe very quickly. If you are a hyper responder to nandrolone and only use 100 - 150 mg weekly for 8 weeks per year, is it justified to take the "risk" of neurotoxicity? Again, it's how the unknowable sits with you, and if it drives you mad, leave it be.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Is neurotoxicity at all linked to e2 levels? Because the studies I've heard about on deca ran nandrolone only so e2 would be very low to non-existent. And don't we usually hear that e2 is neuroprotective? I'm not aware of these studies being done with testosterone and deca at the same time so that e2 is in normal range

 

[Tdeck81]

not aware of these studies being done with testosterone and deca at the same time

Interesting point..suppressed test leads to suppressed e2. So is there a direct or indirect causation? Can utilizing enough exogenous test keep e2 high enough to stave off any potential cognitive side effect?

 

[readalot]

Interesting point..suppressed test leads to suppressed e2. So is there a direct or indirect causation? Can utilizing enough exogenous test keep e2 high enough to stave off any potential cognitive side effect?

Not in my experience. Had serum E2 (LCMS) at 85 pg/ml and that didn't stop the nandrolone steamroller.