help me understand these baffling labs (??)

[foreverdown92]

Hey, as you all know I have been on Clomid for about 2 weeks now. I had my last HCG shot last monday (5/30/05) and got bloodwork done after being on clomid alone 7 days after my HCG shot. Here's what's baffling me ATM:

Total Testosterone: 1240ng/dl (241-827ng/dl)
Free Testosterone: 25.3pg/ml (9.5-43.0)
LH: <.3 (2.0-18.0miu/ml)
FSH: .7 (.4-8.7miu/ml)
Estradiol: 80 (21-50) -- down from 157 a week ago

Doesn't make sense at all! why is my test so high if my LH is still <.3???
I thought LH was responsible for the production of testosterone...

 

[Glaim]

HCG would be suppressive of LH if I'm not mistaken. It would basically take its place in stimulating the production of testosterone.

 

[foreverdown92]

HCG would be suppressive of LH if I'm not mistaken. It would basically take its place in stimulating the production of testosterone.

exactly, but I got this bloodwork done about 7-8 days after my last shot, so shouldn't my LH have risen by now? HCG should have been completely out of my system at that point, correct? if so, then why was my test so high and LH so low?

 

[foreverdown92]

Another odd thing is that my test level read 1240ng/dl, while when I was recieving HCG shots EOD I only came up with a max. level of 1029ng/dl. Good thing is FSH has come up from <.3 to .7, which is "in the normal range." Do you think with a little more time the LH will come up to par as well?

 

[Glaim]

Well, LH is pulsatile, so it's pretty hard to get an accurate measurement with a single test. You could have possibly hit a lowpoint. That is prretty high test for such low LH considering when the last HCG injection was.

If your LH goes back up depends...was that the source of your low test to begin with?

 

[foreverdown92]

Well, LH is pulsatile, so it's pretty hard to get an accurate measurement with a single test. You could have possibly hit a lowpoint. That is prretty high test for such low LH considering when the last HCG injection was.

If your LH goes back up depends...was that the source of your low test to begin with?

I was anorexic at the age of 15 and became shut down as a result. Then my primary doc wrongfully placed me on androgel at the age of 16 for about 7-8 months. Now I am seeing an endo who is trying what he can to fix the mistakes that have been made. - I am now 17.

 

[dj75]

How much clomid are you taking?

 

[foreverdown92]

How much clomid are you taking?

was on 100mg, now 50

 

[dj75]

was on 100mg, now 50

my doctor has me on 25mg ed...........i think its low

 

[earthdog]

Sounds like you're on track to me

Another odd thing is that my test level read 1240ng/dl, while when I was recieving HCG shots EOD I only came up with a max. level of 1029ng/dl. Good thing is FSH has come up from <.3 to .7, which is "in the normal range." Do you think with a little more time the LH will come up to par as well?

Well your total T is above normal, but your free T is midrange. That suggests a high level of SHBG, which could partially account for why total T went up slightly. But the main reason total T and E2 is elevated is from the large amounts of hcg you recieved. Hcg is a LH "analogue", meaning it is similar to and performs the same function as LH. It stands to reason that after anorexia, then several months of the gel followed by large amounts of hcg, your LH and TSH will be low. Whether or not the clomid brings them back up and whether E2 comes down is going to determine whether or not you're going to be a TRT patient for life or not.

Don't give up hope yet. From my understanding of some of your posts, your doctor was testing to see if your balls still worked by using hcg. Good news, they do! Now he's trying to see if he can convince your body to resume its natural production by hopefully raising LH and FSH, and lowering E2 with the clomid. Be patient my young Padawan. You didn't get into this condition overnight, and you're not going to recover from it overnight either. Just be sure that, when its time to come off the clomid, he tapers you off as Swale has suggested elsewhere. If it works, great! If it doesn't, well at least you know from hanging around here that TRT works and can give you a normal life. No go eat some peanut butter like I told you before!

 

[foreverdown92]

hey, thanks. By the way, how much longer should we give clomid to raise the LH level?

 

[earthdog]

I'm not sure. I have no experience with clomid. I'd have to say, longer than "days." You've been suppressed for a long time. My guess is "weeks" and even a slim possibilty "months" but I'm just guessing here. Some other bros know a lot more about clomid therapy than me, hopefully someone else will answer this.

 

[foreverdown92]

alright.. some not-so-good news... my endo has decided to take me off of clomid and just do nothing and see if I start to function... won't this take ages though? Why the hell doesn't he just let me continue..?

 

[SWALE]

He has not given you nearly enough time for things to take hold. You also need to drop to 25mg per day for several weeks, then taper, cutting the dose in half for 5 days, then half again for the final 5 days.

Cold turkey from what you are doing is likely to set you back.

 

[earthdog]

There you have it.

 

[foreverdown92]

well dammit, what the hell am I supposed to do? I already recommended he taper me off, but he backed it up with some medical bullshit. He's the only endocrinologist my parents will let me see! Sure wish I were 18!
I'm thinking I'll run clomid longer on my own, using some from an online source...

 

[foreverdown92]

does DHEA prevent LH from normalizing?

 

[SWALE]

If it elevates estrogen it will.

I do not know if it directly inhibits the HPTA. Never heard that it does.