MESO-Rx Exclusive Are bodybuilding precontest "coaches" legally liable when their clients have life-altering/ending health problems?

[MESO-Rx Administrator]

The Washington Post has recently published a few articles about bodybuilding precontest "coaches" who clients have ended up hospitalized, with permanent life-altering health problems, in a coma, or even dead. It begs the questions about what responsibility the coaches have in these cases - morally, ethically, and legally. The latest MESO-Rx exclusive focus on legal liability:

Bodybuilding Precontest “Coaches”: Practicing Medicine Without a License? - MESO-Rx

Could a precontest coach be charged with practicing medicine without a license? I think the answer is yes. I also think there are a few reasons we haven’t seen it… yet.

thinksteroids.com

 

[Norse13]

The legal part of the article is very USA-centric (What is “Practicing Medicine Without a License”?).

The athletes referred to are from various countries including Egypt, Iran, Canada, Algeria, Austria, Serbia - none of them from USA.

We need to take into the account that the legal topic is considerably more complex when using internet coaching and when looking at it from an international perspective - coach and trainee may be in two different countries, medical event may happen in a third country, the legislation may differ in those countries, usually it is very challenging in real life to pursue liabilities across countries. Coach may register a company in yet another country.

 

[Deleted member 134759]

Adults should be responsible for their own actions and what they put in their body. No coach is forcing injections onto their clients. If you don’t want to take the medications then don’t take them.

I believe practicing medicine without a license varies by definition and severity state by state.

In CA it’s defined as “You diagnosed, operated, or prescribed treatment for an ailment, blemish, deformity, disease, disfigurement, disorder, injury, or any other physical or mental condition”

If a coach telling you to take 500 test, and you administer it….I’m not sure how that constitutes a crime. But with the intentional vagueness of laws I’m sure it could be prosecuted.

If my wife says “I have a headache”, and I tell her to take an aspirin… and she takes aspirin and it turns out she is allergic to aspirin, Am I practicing medicine without a license?

I know one is a controlled substance and one is not. But shouldn’t we just be responsible for our own actions?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Coaches have a responsibility to treat their clients as people, not test subject, WHEN WEIGHED AGAINST CONTEST GOALS.

Clients shoulder a responsibility as ANY other type of client to be generally aware of what goes in their bodies and why.

There is a triangle of interaction between coach, client, and goal. There are times when I’ve assessed my general health and my goal and given my coach the OK to push me. There are times when I’ve said “that doesn’t sound good” to a client asking me to push them harder.

Keeping my thoughts on the burst of higher profile deaths in the sport to myself, a coach is no more responsible than the client.

Legally….that bar is so low in the US it’s hardly a reasonable conversation given the stupid shit people sue for and win here.

 

[Rido]

too many of these moronic instagram/tik tok/facebook coaches.

anyone who has a few cycle is now a "coach"

 

[finroid]

I feel there is plenty of moral responsibility if your coach is of a dogmatic nature and tells you to do X, Y and Z. Maybe also threatens to cut the coaching relationship if you don't listen to the advice and tells you will never reach your goals without them.

But then again if your coach is telling you to do X, Y and Z and tells why you should do them. Is it up to the client to find out about the possible adverse effects? I think yes. Many times when a doctor has prescribed me something, it has truly been up to myself to find out about the adverse effects even if I had specifically asked about them during the consultation. Should a random steroid enthusiast promoting steroid use have more responsibility than a real medical professional? No.

I can't find any moral qualms if your steroid coach tells you which compounds he recommends, explains as best as he can how they will work, what effects and side-effects are expected and how those can be mitigated. Preferably also refers you to some reading material where someone who is more educated explains the same.

US case law and the refered legislation seems vague, though maybe on purpose so cases like these could be trialed if some public outcry demanded. Using steroids is legal in my country and I don't think cases like these could be put into court. If someone recommends you to do a legal thing and you harm yourself, then I think it purely falls under the person's own responsibility.

 

[Millard]

We need to take into the account that the legal topic is considerably more complex when using internet coaching and when looking at it from an international perspective - coach and trainee may be in two different countries, medical event may happen in a third country, the legislation may differ in those countries, usually it is very challenging in real life to pursue liabilities across countries. Coach may register a company in yet another country.

The international perspective certainly adds a layer of complexity, but you have to realize that American prosecutors firmly believe in the internationalization of US law. They will prosecute foreign nationals who have never set foot on US soil. The so-called long arm of law enforcement.

But as you say, I really don't think they care too much about taking on the challenges involved. Bodybuilding and bodybuilders harming themselves (even under advice of "coaches") isn't that important to them.

As far as the specific names mentioned in the article, yeah those were mostly clients. Most of the coaches are based in the U.S. The article did not specifically mention it but its impetus was the recent WaPo investigation that did specifically name a few trainers based in North America.

 

[Millard]

US case law and the refered legislation seems vague, though maybe on purpose so cases like these could be trialed if some public outcry demanded. Using steroids is legal in my country and I don't think cases like these could be put into court. If someone recommends you to do a legal thing and you harm yourself, then I think it purely falls under the person's own responsibility.

Yeah, I wouldn't normally expect anything to be pursued. I'm just curious what type of impact the WaPo investigation will have as far as public outcry and prosecutors who feel compelled to do something about the issues raised. I don't know.

Aside from the legal concerns, I wonder how much it will impact certain coaches businesses. Some of the issues raised in the WaPo investigation, while perhaps not common knowledge, can be easily found with basic google searches. It doesn't appear to have greatly impacted business. So will WaPo? I don't know either.

 

[MrTexas2]

I am a prep coach and there is some truth here, but the part about sodium/water depletion and then diuretic use piled on top is not only a path to death, but also a path to looking like shit. The key is being in top shape 10 days out and not doing crazy last minute stuff.

You look your best if you keep drinking water until the afternoon before a show (I actually keep a little going until the evening) and don't completely cut sodium. You are then in a position to let diuretics work their magic.

And you will actually look your best by keeping diuretic use moderate. Yes they are very dangerous, but not if used properly. You start on an aldosterone blocker, titrate up, then a thiazide, titrate, and don't touch a loop until close to the show. Its the loops (lasix) that will kill you but I only have my people take one, maybe one and a half tablets max. Also, I re-introduce sodium at the same time a loop is used. The key is to stay conservative and keep use to as little as needed. And I come in with shredded glutes this way. I felt the the Olympia guys were not very conditioned at all. The real problem is you have to be 100% in shape 10 days out and not try and do any last minute crazy stuff to compensate for being out of shape. That is a problem I am having right now, I have a 280 lb guy who thinks he is too lean and that diuretics will solve his problem. The fact is he has to much fat on his stomach. Diuretics only work if you are already in shape.

If you are doing crazy last minute stuff, depleting and loading, cutting water for days, using a ton of diuretics, you are doing something wrong. You should be completely shredded (and flat) 10 days out and then gradually carb up. Diuretics are just the finishing touches.