16 week Cutting Cycle, EQ + Masteron + Testo

[Sheki]

Hi there Bros,

I am planing on cutting for the next 16 weeks. Have been on 500mg of Sustanon the last 2 weeks, with Masteron E 200mg a week... altough the Masteron keeps the water-retention atbay to some degree I stil hold pretty much water. So I was thinking of doing something like this Bro's.

16 Week Cutting Cycle

250mg Sustanon
400mg EQ
200mg Masteron E


The reason I am putting in the Masteron is simply to prevent some of the water bloat, and the reason I am running a low 250mg Sustanon is to further decrease the waterbloat, but stil keep it at 250mg to have some good base in there.

I have several question

[1]Does EQ increase libido/sexdrive or decrease it?


[2]Is 400mg EQ as effectice as 250mg Sustanon in this case?


[3]Will 400mg EQ give the same degree of waterbloat as 250mg Sustanon or less?


Thank you Bro's! I aprreciate all your help.

 

[ForemanRules]

If you are going to do a 16 week cycle then you need to change it up in week 8........doing the same tihing for 16 weeks is a waste.....I would never run a cycle that long

 

[Sheki]

If you are going to do a 16 week cycle then you need to change it up in week 8........doing the same tihing for 16 weeks is a waste.....I would never run a cycle that long

I hear you, is this because the receptors would be saturated? Could you explain this more for me ForemanRules.

I was thinking that it wouldn't matter, since Bill Roberts claims that there is no such thing as receptor downregulation.

 

[j martini]

Receptor saturation eh. I dont think anyone has a definite answer on this subject, technically androgen receptors are continuosly being renewed so receptor saturation cannot be the reason for the slowdown/halt in gains while on cycle.

It could possibly be from Elaveted SHBG levels, SHBG(Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin) is a nasty hormone that basically ties up your free testosterone and stops it doing all its good work, like building muscle. Some people like to add a strong androgen or DHT derivitive like masteron, tren, winny, proviron to help lower SHBG levels and keep gaining, some even feel insulin will work for this purpose.

Another thing to factor as foremanrules stated is to switch compounds as Different AAS act in slightly different pathways this can keep you gaining, although personally i feel you can run the sus and EQ for 12 weeks as they have a long half life.

Another reasons why growth might stall on a long cycle is the body wants to constantly remain in homeostasis, it will fight you every inch of the way as it does not want to build more muscle than it needs. If you gain 20pounds in 8 weeks your body will certainly not want to keep gaining at this rate and will find a way to stop growth.

The oldest and most effective way to keep growing is to cycle off and take a break, then cycle back on.

These are all just theories nothing is set in stone, and the real reason why growth ceases on long cycles is not known are understood fully.

 

[Sheki]

Receptor saturation eh. I dont think anyone has a definite answer on this subject, technically androgen receptors are continuosly being renewed so receptor saturation cannot be the reason for the slowdown/halt in gains while on cycle.

It could possibly be from Elaveted SHBG levels, SHBG(Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin) is a nasty hormone that basically ties up your free testosterone and stops it doing all its good work, like building muscle. Some people like to add a strong androgen or DHT derivitive like masteron, tren, winny, proviron to help lower SHBG levels and keep gaining, some even feel insulin will work for this purpose.

Another thing to factor as foremanrules stated is to switch compounds as Different AAS act in slightly different pathways this can keep you gaining, although personally i feel you can run the sus and EQ for 12 weeks as they have a long half life.

Another reasons why growth might stall on a long cycle is the body wants to constantly remain in homeostasis, it will fight you every inch of the way as it does not want to build more muscle than it needs. If you gain 20pounds in 8 weeks your body will certainly not want to keep gaining at this rate and will find a way to stop growth.

The oldest and most effective way to keep growing is to cycle off and take a break, then cycle back on.

These are all just theories nothing is set in stone, and the real reason why growth ceases on long cycles is not known are understood fully.

OK, that seems logical. Yeah, I think the more I read, the more confused I get. In the end I will have not make up my mind anyways.

Yes, that is why put in the Masteron in there. This cycle is not intended for me to make any gains, I simply want to keep what I got and lose fat.

I have considered using Tren for cutting, but I really do not feel so good about it. The closer to Testosterone one compound gets the more comfortable I feel with it. EQ and Masteron are both derivates of Testosterone so that makes me a bit calmer.

Tnx for the reply.

 

[ForemanRules]

Receptor saturation is a hotly debated subject.....I don't honestly know where I stand on that subject. I do know from experiance ( 20+ cycles) and the experiance of my friends....that most people max out by week 8.....unless they change the cycle up.

If I were to do a long cycle this is what I would do.....and I did do this once and it worked great ( but I only did 12 weeks)

1-16 Test E 500mg( or test Cyp or sust)....I also might bump up the test to 750-1000mg in week 9
1-8 EQ 600mg
9-16 Deca 400mg
9-16 Tren 100mg EOD


The EQ and Deca dont really matter but adding Tren in week 8 or 9 will make a huge differance in a long cycle. IMO

 

[DaneGer]

yea looks good Foreman but i would run the deca 1-8 and the EQ 9-16 IMO because the deca would stay in your system way longer

 

[ForemanRules]

yea looks good Foreman but i would run the deca 1-8 and the EQ 9-16 IMO because the deca would stay in your system way longer

EQ stays in the system longer.....Deca will show up on drug tests longer but it works for a shorter time than EQ.....Hell it dosent matter if you use one of the other first...

 

[unt0ld]

Forman you think there is such a thing as receptor down reg?

 

[Sheki]

Receptor saturation is a hotly debated subject.....I don't honestly know where I stand on that subject. I do know from experiance ( 20+ cycles) and the experiance of my friends....that most people max out by week 8.....unless they change the cycle up.

If I were to do a long cycle this is what I would do.....and I did do this once and it worked great ( but I only did 12 weeks)

1-16 Test E 500mg( or test Cyp or sust)....I also might bump up the test to 750-1000mg in week 9
1-8 EQ 600mg
9-16 Deca 400mg
9-16 Tren 100mg EOD


The EQ and Deca dont really matter but adding Tren in week 8 or 9 will make a huge differance in a long cycle. IMO

This is what I think, often I am wrong, might very be this time too. But could this explain some of it?

OK, what you are saying is interesting. You gained I geuss to some degree while on 500mg Test and 600mg Eq the first weeks... then by week 8 you noticed the results deminishing so you added to 500mg Test, 400mg Deca and 350mg Tren. Well, this suggests you increased the total dosages, and also switched to different compounds. Which could explain that you started to gain again.

Now, what is interesting is if you could get off the cycle, and keep lets say 100% of your gains, and then start again with 500mg Test and 600mg EQ, and stil gain.

I suspect the dosages from the begining just got you back to your previous maximum while you were on the last cycle, then your gains starts to diminsh, and you increased the dosages and the gains comes in again.

The question I start to think about here is if you would have gotten the same results from simply increasing the Test dosages from 500mg to say 1000mg, kept the EQ at 600mg and added come Proviron at 700mg. Which would make it clear that the results come from increased dosages and not from receptor downregulation. Sure 500mg of Testo and 700mg Proviron maybe is not equal to 350mg Tren, but you get my point.

 

[Beefy]

I'm going in to my 3rd week of test e 500mg/wk, deca 250mg/wk, eq 250mg/wk. I've been using 50mg dbol ed until the injectibles kick in fully. So far I'm sweating alot and leaning up well. I'm watching my diet and carbs, but not too strickly. The dbol will be dropped within 2 weeks. I will probably drop the deca by week 6 and up the eq to 500mg/wk.

Personally, I think you should save the masteron until the end of the cycle. Keep the test and eq through out. Eq won't bloat you, it will help dry you out. By the 10th week, you should be very lean if your diet and training are good. Then the masteron will pull more water into your muscles and make them very full.

 

[Sheki]

I'm going in to my 3rd week of test e 500mg/wk, deca 250mg/wk, eq 250mg/wk. I've been using 50mg dbol ed until the injectibles kick in fully. So far I'm sweating alot and leaning up well. I'm watching my diet and carbs, but not too strickly. The dbol will be dropped within 2 weeks. I will probably drop the deca by week 6 and up the eq to 500mg/wk.

Personally, I think you should save the masteron until the end of the cycle. Keep the test and eq through out. Eq won't bloat you, it will help dry you out. By the 10th week, you should be very lean if your diet and training are good. Then the masteron will pull more water into your muscles and make them very full.

OK, because I get pretty bloated from Test. If EQ bloates me atleast 1/3 of what test does I will be very happy. I read at bodybuilding.com that EQ bloats you about 1/2 as test does, this would not be so good. Anyway, I need the Masteron to keep down the bloat.

I am cutting just to see how I look when very lean so that I will know what I need to work on. So it is not for competition this time.

Why will EQ dry me out? And why will Masteron pull the water into the muscles? Could you explain this more, this is new to me.

Tnx for the reply Bro!

 

[iceberg]

Sustanon is a waste if you do not do every other day injections. the short acting test will be usless.

As far as length of cycle. My experience (14-15 cycles over last 10 years) is that gains slow to a crawl around week 8, but pick back up again in week 10-12 of a 16 week cycle. I think a 16 week cycle is better as it gives you body more time to adjust to its new set point. PCT becomes even more important on longer cycles.

ICEberg

 

[Sheki]

Sustanon is a waste if you do not do every other day injections. the short acting test will be usless.

As far as length of cycle. My experience (14-15 cycles over last 10 years) is that gains slow to a crawl around week 8, but pick back up again in week 10-12 of a 16 week cycle. I think a 16 week cycle is better as it gives you body more time to adjust to its new set point. PCT becomes even more important on longer cycles.

ICEberg

Yeah, I also think that if you run longer cycles where you gain slowly, you will have a greater chance of keeping it... Easy come, Easy go... that is the scientific reason I have for this.
_____________________________________________

I have several question

[1]Does EQ increase libido/sexdrive or decrease it?

My toughts: It should increase libido, but not to the degree as Testo does. Since it is less androgenic, and does form into DHT.

[2]Is 400mg EQ as effectice as 250mg Sustanon in this case?

My toughts: Yes, and probably even better since you have Masteron/Provirion in there, which will intesify the Testo.

[3]Will 400mg EQ give the same degree of waterbloat as 250mg Sustanon or less?

My toughts: No clue, have seen only one guy stating that it aromitizes 1/2 to estrogen as Test does.

Help me out guys!

 

[Beefy]

Eq does not aromitize enough to even consider that it aromitizes, and it is more androgenic than anabolic (that's why I say it dries you out). Eq users consistantly talk about how it makes them more vascular. It's not gonna cut water like winny, but there's no bloat and it's androgenic. It does increase appitite, though. Most people consider it a lean bulker, whatever that is.

With eq, you should go for at least 10 weeks at 400-600mgs/wk (assuming you have at least 200lbs of lean body mass). You should cut the dose a little if your smaller.

Masteron causes the muscles to hold more water and become full, even while on a severe calorie deficit or carb depletion. Test will make you hold water under your skin, which makes you smooth and bloated. Masteron puts more water in the muscle, which is very different and very much a good thing.

 

[Sheki]

Eq does not aromitize enough to even consider that it aromitizes, and it is more androgenic than anabolic (that's why I say it dries you out). Eq users consistantly talk about how it makes them more vascular. It's not gonna cut water like winny, but there's no bloat and it's androgenic. It does increase appitite, though. Most people consider it a lean bulker, whatever that is.

With eq, you should go for at least 10 weeks at 400-600mgs/wk (assuming you have at least 200lbs of lean body mass). You should cut the dose a little if your smaller.

Masteron causes the muscles to hold more water and become full, even while on a severe calorie deficit or carb depletion. Test will make you hold water under your skin, which makes you smooth and bloated. Masteron puts more water in the muscle, which is very different and very much a good thing.

I have less than 200lbs lean mass, more like 180lbs, so maybe 300mg/wk would be better.

I get a feeling you know very much Beefy. Tell me, do you know anything if EQ increases libido or not? How about conversion to DHT? Some say yes some no.

Tnx again!

 

[Beefy]

Well, I was actually way off on my eq info earlier. I do consider myself fairly well educated in the very basics of AAS usage, but I'm not even close to some of the other guys on this board.

Here's more acurate info on eq...

It is a strong anabolic, and only moderately androgenic. It is slightly stronger than deca, mg for mg. Side effects are usually mild. It is able to be converted into estrogen, but it usually doesn't. It aromitizes much less than test, but more than deca. It is not known to cause hair loss problems, but acne and water bloat and gyno are possible to prone individuals. Best results are seen when used for at least 8-10 weeks.

You should run test with the eq, so loss of libido won't be a prob.

After reading up and refreshing, and knowing your build, etc. I'd recommend this as a starting point, but you should definately create your own cycle. It's your body, bro. Having said that, a 12 week lean bulk followed by 8-12 weeks off, then followed by 8-10 weeks of a test/masteron cutter would yield better results than a 16 week test/eq/masteron. In my opinion, of course.

Wks 1-10 EQ 400mg
Wks 2-11 test e 200-250mg
Use arimidex (.25-.5mg/day)begining week 2 for no water bloat. PCT 3 weeks after last test shot. Save the masteron.

 

[ForemanRules]

Forman you think there is such a thing as receptor down reg?

I don't know, I have read opinions on both sides.

 

[Deacon]

I don't know, I have read opinions on both sides.

there is nothing to prove that there is such a thing as receptor downgrade

but I agree I would run the test and EQ for 16 weeks but only run the Masteron weeks 8-16

once you have used the Masteron you will understand why

 

[ForemanRules]

there is nothing to prove that there is such a thing as receptor downgrade

but I agree I would run the test and EQ for 16 weeks but only run the Masteron weeks 8-16

once you have used the Masteron you will understand why

I have read some medical studies that say it is true,,,,,but I could care less. I know from experience it is true or just non effective after 8-10 weeks.....unless you up the dose big time or change drugs.....either way long cycles ( 12+) are 95% of the time an act of desperation by people with a bad deit , poor training and crap genetics.