2 failed post cycles, Doctors were no help..

[playhard00]

Hey guys, need some advice, here is a bit of background on myself.
23 years old, 6ft, 235 pounds, 17% bf. endomorph body type. 2 cycles completed. first went great, second one had issues. has been lifting for 9 years.

Nov 2012: 600test and 500tren cycle 10 weeks longs, Adex EoD, in 7th week of cycle had ED and very upset/moody, lost all sex drive completely, ended cycle right away

Jan 2013: did proper PCT. 10 000iu HCG nolva clomid. recovery only for about 2-3 weeks and then was at same stage as before

July 2013: re did PCT, another 10 000iu HCG (1000 EoD) nolva (20) clomid (50)
finished that and was ok with sex drive on and off for a few weeks, then it was gone again, and since then I have had little to no luck with erections and no libido,- I forget what it feels like to want to have sex, sex is now a stressor, not a stress relief.
just got last weeks blood work back.

the results are as follows:
total test:7 pref range: 8-29
bio available test:1.5 pref range: 3-9
SHBG:26 pref range:13-70
LH:2 pref range:1.5-9
FSH:3 pref range:1.5-18
Prolactin:12.5 pref range:2-17
Estradoil:70 pref range: 50-200

I went to my family doctor, he said he had no experience in this matter so he sent me to the Endo in the city. After looking at my bloodwork he said " most likely you will never have kids, you need TRT for life, start at 200/week see how that feels, try 300 if you desire" and sent me home.

Im trying to stay away from TRT due to my young age(23), Id like to get going naturally again, just reclaim my sex drive and be able to enjoy sex again.
(and yes, i now know that I am too young to be cycling,lesson learned)

any info would be helpful, thanks in advance.

 

[Burrr]

Damn, that sucks bro.
Doin AAS is like russian roulette for your HPTA, and when you do a hard shutdown cycle with tren at the age of 21, it's like having a couple extra bullets in the gun.
good luck. I hope you will share your experience with others that want to run multi compound cycles at 21.

 

[Arnold Strong]

How certain are you of the authenticity of your PCT drugs?

 

[boxcar]

Damn dude, I've only ever done Test cyles with kickstart orals and dbol at the end...works great dude....tren..jesus.

Like Arnold said...are your PCT drugs 100% real no doubt?

Maybe try to do self TRT with HCG for a couple months and retry pct?

Why don't you want to do TRT man? I mean, TRT helps you keeps your gains much more then PCT, and your always going to be higher on TRT then natty...at least IMO and from seeing others be on TRT

 

[duramax600]

you said it in your post. stress! Not saying your low numbers have no effect, because they are part of the problem but as a whole stressing about it makes it worse. Get a trial pack of cialis 30 days free (add on tv). Use as little as needed to help get the confidence back so it is not a stressor. Stay off aas and see if your body gets back into balance. If so gtg. In not plan and adjust your life accordingly.

 

[Ozzy619]

Sucks man sorry to hear. But you should be an advocate for the youger guys that are dead set taking AAS. You weren't done growing, sounds like you stunted yourself and shut yourself down. That's what happens when you're too young. I would redo PCT, from somewhere legit, and don't take anything else until you do. TRT should be last resort.

 

[Ricardo]

How certain are you of the authenticity of your PCT drugs?

Would definitely be looking into this too.

I know of plenty of guys who have shut themselves down from abruptly stopping with no pct etc etc, they have all bounced back eventually.

Would defo redo pct with high quality hcg clomid.

 

[TheGuy85]

Contact dr. Scally. And what were your baseline levels before your cycling anyway?

Personally I have seen claims of permanent ASIH but yet to see real proof. It's taken people over a year to recover from steroid abuse. Though your cycling wasn't nearly as long or as aggressive as these cases. You need to probably consult a doctor familiar with ASIH or at least see an endocrinologist and admit your steroid use if you haven't already.

Did this endo you went to know you had used AAS?

And a doctor just prescribed you 200mg of test (what?) a week from the go?

 

[TheronB]

Day 1-20 : 2000iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

Try that.

 

[newtoketo]

I don't know if this will help but Dante my trainer has stated this in the past...

"I still feel men are much healthier having optimal hormone levels (test in 600-1100 range) estradiol less than 34......as long as everything else in bloodwork comes back stellar...."



and this...



"
Look at the bold=normal healthy men with normal testosterone levels. So there isnt a need for an increase in total T and non-SHBG-bound levels but it happens anyway with the administration of clomid. That told me alot....and I knew i was on the right path with this stuff years ago. So all those people for all these years who have argued vociferously with me that PCT does absolutely nothing if testosterone is present whether endogenous or exogenous, got a big foot in the mouth with this study.

You dont need a total test level of 75 to 180 ng for clomiphene to work....it works regardless....and increased normal testosterone levels above by 100 to 304%.........signals to the HPTA Work!

So let me run thru some of my opinions here on all this and again this all comes down to choices.

1) I believe in 250-500IUS of HCG done 2x a week, done on the day before shots.....and believe this is one of the most important things any bodybuilder can do for himself to keep himself as "normalized as possible"....this is Swales recommendation and kudo's go to his work.....dont credit me in the least on this...because its 100% Swale
2)Clomid is a very hard compound for people to take, it makes alot of guys depressed, anxious and absolutely irritable....want to know what its like for your girlfriend/wife on her period? Thats clomid by 5x. It also works very well if you can hack it (alot of people cant)
3)This is just personal opinion and nothing more than that. I believe Letrozole is just too powerful. You need some estrogen for health reasons. Always remember homeostatis......if you drive your estrogen levels down to nothing, guess where your endo testosterone is going to go. And there is nothing more dangerous in my opinion than having seriously low testosterone levels, especially for endothelial/cardiac health. I would probably pick something like exemestane and use the least amount you can of it for an anti arom.
4) Nolvadex/tamoxifen i go back and forth on opinionwise as an anti est. Ive kind of soured on it again....
a) raises HDL
b) can raise LH, FSH and testosterone in some/most
c) can cause blood clots
d) can cause some retinal damage maybe in some (thats for you killerstack)
e) can potentially reduce IGF liberation

(yes Ive started to get to the opinion that steroids and testosterone are pretty safe but its all the ancillary stuff that people are using in large amounts that they think is like pez candy (but are in actuality pretty darn powerful) might be a big culprit in alot of the side effects (especially cardiovascular/lipid/clot wise) we are seeing.

Hope something helps!

 

[newtoketo]

and this as well.....

" In my opinion one of the absolute worst things you can do for yourself as a man is not keep hormonal levels what they were when you were probably your healthiest hormonally (roundabout 24 to 28 years old). And when i say that i mean testosterone wise and estradiol wise (alot of bodybuilders forget about that part of the equation)....alot of bodybuilders on this very site drive their levels down to 0 with letrozole (highly dangerous as that has a parallel effect level on endo testosterone = alot of problems = namely among other things potential for problems with blood vessel interior walls = clots etc).....on the other hand let your estradiol get too high and again your right in prime heart attack territory Why Estrogen Balance is Critical to Aging Men ......just as important as it is to keep your testosterone from being way too high, its just as important to not have it too low for long lengths of time.....what you are looking for usually is estradiol between 21 and 30 with 37 being where you really want to start reigning it in with an AI dosage (exemestane does this very well and you can experiment with 6mg, 8mg or 10 mg or 12mg a day until you get it right in range according to the testosterone dosage you are using)....wow im digressing and rambling.....back to my main point."

 

[greenddog1]

The OP should be required reading for all young noobs! So many have no idea of the life altering changes and challenges of aas use.

 

[FuriousWO]

you said it in your post. stress! Not saying your low numbers have no effect, because they are part of the problem but as a whole stressing about it makes it worse. Get a trial pack of cialis 30 days free (add on tv). Use as little as needed to help get the confidence back so it is not a stressor.

I couldn't agree more. OP I had a weird part of my in my early 30's where I suddenly couldn't hold an erection or got none at all. I wasn't doing AAS, but as this went on it was such a stress for me if I'd be able to get it up and perform that I was also causing some of my own problems worry about it. When I started to relax and stop worrying, the problem went away.

I'm not saying that's your hormone levels aren't causing the problem, but stressing about it is definitely making it worse. When you have performance anxiety you are bound to fail. Do what Duramax suggested and see if that helps any. Also listen to these other guys.

 

[leoclaw79]

Part of your issue is doing HCG at the same time as the PCT. Do the hcg by itself first! It shuts your HPTA down despite making your balls produce test. So do the hcg for a couple weeks. Then stop it and start PCT. 300mg clomid and 120mg nolva day one. Then 50 mg clomid and 20 mg nolva a day for the next month or maybe longer

 

[ThE SiCkNeSs]

This is a sad story, I hope you get that shit back together. He probably was doing test since he was 16. I know a kid who juiced in high school, got huge over a summer, I mean huge. He was a nerd who got picked on before and then he got big and became a bully. He's now 30, fat and overweight and can't make natty test either. This is why young guys shouldn't do test.


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[GooglePhoneMe]

OP, How did you Dr. explain you will not be able to have kids? Did you do a sperm count (sample) test? My understanding is this is the only way to be 100% sure. Looking at your results they are all close to range.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

You arent doing your hcg alongside your serms the entire time are you? Prime the leydig cells with hcg then restart endogenous production of lh and fsh with serms. I have never included hcg as a part of my pct as it in and of itself can be suppressive.