Androgel

[SWALE]

Then you are indeed a test cyp player.

ALL transdermal testosterone delivery systems produce accentuated DHT. This is a double-edged sword. This also makes them better for treating ED.

I recommend all men undergoing TRT try Androgel first.

 

[3xKrazy]

I recommend all men undergoing TRT try Androgel first.

why?

 

[buck]

Probably because dht kick starts ed and libido.

 

[3xKrazy]

Probably because dht kick starts ed and libido.

Ok, I didnt realize this post was about treating ED specifically....

I thought SWALE meant this to say that he recommends Androgel before test cyp in all TRT patients....

 

[SWALE]

Actually, I hit NEW POST instead of REPLY on another thread. Oops.

Now that we are onto it, yes, I do recommend Androgel first. Correct, it is the DHT boost I am looking for. Avoiding injections is nice, too. I also like to keep as many weapons in reserve as possible, to maximize alternatives should one method/protocol fail. That is why I have TRT protocols four deep (and growing) in my arsenal.

It's pretty hard to get a former AAS user to go with anything but Upjohn test cyp, though. So if a guy wants to start with that, I give it to him.

 

[cvguy]

A while back, my local doc tried putting me on 5mg/day of androgel, and it raised my T levels from about 250 to a whopping 450. Seems like I'd have to bathe in the stuff!

 

[SWALE]

So you'd look like a glazed donut? LOL.

Response to this, and all forms of TRT, is variable. However, many men are perfectly happy at 450, if the bottom of normal range is 300ng/dL. Especially if they get a good DHT response. I think there is a somewhat misguided desire to get above as high as possible with T levels, and that is not necessarily the best therapy for everyone. Also, the charlatan doctors who take their patients above the top of normal range, or put them on drugs meant for AAS, are actually making their guys feel worse, not better, over time. Sure, they feel great while androgen levels are accelerating, but above the top of normal range is no way to live long term. I have many, many patients who used to go at twice normal range, or more, who tell me they feel MUCH better--and maintain better libido levels--in the upper quartile of normal range. I guess you have to feel it to believe it.

There are reasons why I preach as I do.

 

[maddzz]

Do elevated DHT levels lead to a decrease in libido?

 

[cvguy]

well, that might explain why I wasn't very thrilled with 450...I am very predisposed to male pattern baldness, so I take propecia regularly to avoid that. So I'm guessing that I got very little DHT response to the androgel.

 

[SWALE]

cvguy--Yes, perhaps the Propecia is causing your libido issues. After all, DHT is responsible for "All Things Male".

This is a HUGE side effect of finasteride--IMPO, much higher than is published by the manufacturers.

And many men would live very happily at 450ng/dL. Everyone is diferent.

I have also seen very impressive jumps in T from the 5gm daily pack.