another estrogen level question

[sparkycat]

Assuming it's true that estrogen levels need to be above normal during a cycle, does anyone know what a good level is? And has anyone ever had lab tests to see what their level is instead of simply taking nolvadex or arimidex and guessing at the correct dose? There seems to be a tremendous amount of knowledge about exactly what amounts of what gear to take, but estrogen level is monitored through guessing and assumptions. At any rate, I'm starting the first cycle I've ever done and after a few weeks I'm going to have an estadiol test just out of curiosity. Then I'll have a more precise way of knowing if I need nolvadex/arimidex and if so, in what amounts.

 

[einstein1905]

I want mine greater than 100pg/mL, which is roughly double normal "high" levels in males. The reason this isn't an issue is because we also have supraphysiological androgen levels too. We therefore reap the anabolic effects of high estrogen w/o any feminizing going on due to normal (usually above normal) androgen (test + DHT):estrogen ratios

 

[tonyatl]

Assuming it's true that estrogen levels need to be above normal during a cycle, does anyone know what a good level is? And has anyone ever had lab tests to see what their level is instead of simply taking nolvadex or arimidex and guessing at the correct dose? There seems to be a tremendous amount of knowledge about exactly what amounts of what gear to take, but estrogen level is monitored through guessing and assumptions. At any rate, I'm starting the first cycle I've ever done and after a few weeks I'm going to have an estadiol test just out of curiosity. Then I'll have a more precise way of knowing if I need nolvadex/arimidex and if so, in what amounts.

excellent questions.....i would be interested in what your estrogen levels are as well as test and free test levels if you get the tests done....i have always wondered what level of test we really need to get the benefits we seek ( i.e. increased strength or mass ) and how much gear we need to raise the test levels to that productive level....i.e. at what point are diminishing returns in terms of test levels....and how much anti-e is needed to keep the e/t ratios optimal....

good question bro....i am not trying to hijack your thread....

 

[einstein1905]

This review clearly demonstrates the anabolic effects of estrogen. If you don't have access to the fulltext version, email me, and I'll email you the pdf, as the abstract isn't sufficient to explain all there is to it:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12676172

Int J Biochem Cell Biol. 2003 Jun;35(6):855-66. Related Articles, Links


Skeletal muscle RAS and exercise performance.

Jones A, Woods DR.

Department of Cardiovascular Genetics, 3rd Floor, Rayne Institute, University College London, 5 University Street, London WC1E 6JJ, UK.

A local renin-angiotensin system (RAS) may be suggested by evidence of gene expression of RAS components within the tissue as well as physiological responsiveness of this gene expression. This review will focus on the evidence supporting the existence of the constituent elements of a physiologically functional paracrine muscle RAS. The effect of local skeletal muscle RAS on human exercise performance will be explored via its relation with pharmacological intervention and genetic studies.The most likely configuration of the muscle RAS is a combination of in situ synthesis and uptake from the circulation of RAS components. A reduction in angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) activity reverses the decline in physical performance due to peripheral muscle factors in those with congestive heart failure and may halt or slow decline in muscle strength in elderly women. Genetic studies suggest that increased ACE and angiotensin II (Ang II) mediate greater strength gains perhaps via muscle hypertrophy whereas lower ACE levels and reduced bradykinin (BK) degradation mediate enhanced endurance performance perhaps via changes in substrate availability, muscle fibre type and efficiency.

 

[einstein1905]

Estrogen does have its benefits. The trick is the question above, how much is just right. There is not a universal answer. Too much estrogen can cause havock on the body, including a female. Each person will have to judge this individually. I dont like bloat and gyno, so I use dex/femara. They dont block 100% of the estrogen so, during a cycle, your estrogen levels will still be high enough to gain the benefits.

The study shows anabolic effects of estrogen are dose-dependent....i.e. the more there is, the better the gains, so to say "enough to still get the gains from estrogen" isn't exactly right, as there seems to be no cap to the gains achieved due to estrogen. This is why relying on an AI to reduce systemic estrogen instead of just using a tiny dose of AI with nolva is limiting in this regard. Why limit total systemic estrogen, when there are only a few tissue types that you don't want it's effects, when you can use nolva to block the unwanted estrogenic effects only at those sites?