Any older men on hrt experience libido/erection problems?

[tomguy]

I'm 59 and a long time user of test and hgh. Only lately have I experienced no libido and no erections within the past week. I'm having my blood work done on Monday to see where my levels are at. The last time I had them done was end of december and Test and estrogen levels, dht, etc.spiked. I never cycled off and my new doctor is putting me on hcg. I'm very anxious and not sleeping well at all. Any reassurances or information would be very helpful to me. I even tried cialis but it didn't work. That was even more discouraging. My partner is very supportive but I don't know for how long.
Thanks,
Tom

 

[jboldman]

you really need to ask this in the hrt forum. Perhaps one of the mods will move it for you.

jb

 

[earthdog]

What do you mean by your levels spiked? What were the lab results and ranges, if you have them?

 

[tomguy]

Blood work results

12/31/04 1/31/04
DHT Range: 81-827 results 3,088 high 1,343 H
Estradiol: 10-50 results 53 high 35 ok
estrone: 0-65 results 80 high 51 ok
estriol: 0-1.7 results .34 OK .30ok
Progesterone .27-.90 results .34 ok .42 ok
SHBG: 11.1-56 results 32.5 ok 31.ok
Test 1.16-8.51 results 16.0 very high 6.2Ok
AvailableTest 26.7-51.4 results 52.4 high No #'s
IGF-1 138-270 results 239 OK 201 ok
Insulin 4.0-12. results 7.1 ok 4.0 ok

 

[earthdog]

Am I reading this right? This editor removes all your spaces and tabs and makes results hard to read. The range for estradiol is 10-50. Yours is 53, which is high. 35 is considered ok. Did I get that right?

If I'm right, I would think you need to get estradiol under control. I should say this upfront, and that is I'm not a doctor, nor even expert, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. But my guess is that there is nothing wrong with you, except that your hormones are out of whack and need balancing. I'm also wondering if you're taking too much testosterone. What doses are you on and how often? Your DHT is off the scale.

Hcg may help, but large doses can raise estrogen. Swale recommends never more that 250IU at once.

Hopefully Swale will see this and comment.

 

[pmgamer18]

tomguy

12/31/04 1/31/04
DHT Range: 81-827 results 3,088 high 1,343 H
Estradiol: 10-50 results 53 high 35 ok
estrone: 0-65 results 80 high 51 ok
estriol: 0-1.7 results .34 OK .30ok
Progesterone .27-.90 results .34 ok .42 ok
SHBG: 11.1-56 results 32.5 ok 31.ok
Test 1.16-8.51 results 16.0 very high 6.2Ok
AvailableTest 26.7-51.4 results 52.4 high No #'s
IGF-1 138-270 results 239 OK 201 ok
Insulin 4.0-12. results 7.1 ok 4.0 ok

Are you using a gel like Androgel or Tesim and putting it on your penis this is the only way I ever seen DHT go this high or did you put on the Gel before the blood test if you did the test is spicked by the gel.
Phil

 

[tomguy]

I'm taking about 175 mg of injected cypiaonate every 7-10 days. I think this is too much and I plan on cutting back until things get under control because my estrogen levels are too high. I was worried because this new dr. in Fl said to start hcg after about 7 days from my last injection for a 10 day period. Then wait a few more days before restarting Test again. I never in many years have been without Test for that long but maybe it's time I tried. They want me to see if I can restart my own test production. Not sure though at 59 but according to them, age shouldn't matter.

 

[earthdog]

You're going to have to keep the dosage of the hcg low or you'll have even more estrogen problems, which I suspect is killing your libido. Like 250IU per shot is ideal. It is better to use low doses more frequently than large doses. But you're going to have to get all your hormones under control if you want to feel better. 100mg of cypionate per week along with two 250IU shots of hcg per week is what many of us are on and are doing well on.

Bump for comments from Swale!

 

[tomguy]

Thanks for the input. Could you pleae explain something to me. I use a syringe to inject the hcg that can hold 100 units upt to 1CC. If I withdraw up to the 50 unit marker on the syringe each day for 5 days (which equals 250units) - is this the same as 250 IU's. I want to make sure I'm not using too much of hcg like you suggested, which would only drive up my estrogen levels. I also started taking DIM and my doctor put me on arimidex - I split a .5mg dose and take .25mg every 3-4days. I just had blood work done last week and I'll get a better understanding of where my E2 is at.
Thank
Tom

 

[SWALE]

You are having the usual problems that guys who take "TRT" too high. Simple as that. It feels good for a while, but then you go backwards. Yours is not "TRT", it is AAS.

I allow DHT to go over the top of normal range, but yours is, well, scary.

Get yourself into the healthy upper quartile of normal range. Once you stabilize there you will notice that good 'ol feeling coming back.

 

[earthdog]

You are having the usual problems that guys who take "TRT" too high. Simple as that. It feels good for a while, but then you go backwards. Yours is not "TRT", it is AAS.

I allow DHT to go over the top of normal range, but yours is, well, scary.

Get yourself into the healthy upper quartile of normal range. Once you stabilize there you will notice that good 'ol feeling coming back.

Tom, that comes straight from the expert. Try reducing your testosterone to 100mg per week and your hcg to 250 IU twice per week and take the arimidex as directed and see if you don't feel better in a few weeks.

On my insulin syringes, 250 IU is 25 tick marks on the syringe.

 

[SWALE]

Good advice. Except I'd rather you wait until testing demonstrates the need for Arimidex. My guess is that you will not need it once you get your T into proper range.

Estrogen conversion is not linear by T levels. When you take your T too high, it really ramps up aromatase activity.

 

[tomguy]

Thanks Swale and everyone for your help. I really appreciate all the advice since it helps me put things in perspective and also gives me good information when speaking with my doctor. I just received my blood work, which was done 3/18. Gave this to my new physician and he wants me to stop doing weekly testosterone shots until my T levels stablize within the normal range. He put me on HCG only protocol for two weeks at which time I will do blood work again. I showed him SWALE's protocol and he said that taking 250 IU's of hcg two days prior to a test shot was OK to do but since I am way over the normal T range more T would only be conterporductive and would also elevate E2, etc. I have no idea if this is the right treatment for me to help normalize things. My new doc practiced at the MAYO clinc and has over 30 years experience in internal medicine, geriatrics and over 10 years experience in administering HRT for men. He came recommended by a nother physician. He gave me a complete physical exam and we talked for about one hour. He was interested in learning about my private life as well to see if there were any factors other than hormonal that could be affectiving me. I guess this is a good thing to inquire about as well. He seems very proactive in his approach to hrt and seems cautious when prescribing medication or even admitting you into a his program.
My 3/18 blood test results showed the following:Total Test was 1408/ng/dl - the range for my age group (59) was 119-1104, and free test was 381.g pg/mL - is this correct?; Free test for my age group range was 11.0 - 141.0. Apparently I'm way over the range for Test. Estradiol, free was .62 pg/mL (range .30 - .90), Estradiol % free was 2.06% (range 1.66 - 2.11) and estradiol was 30pg/mL (range 10-50). My DHT results aren't in yet but they are probably still very elevated. From what I can tell from reading the lab report (Quest), I'm way too high with my test but my estrodiol results are within normal ranges? My new doc still put me on .5mg (.25 twice per week) of arimidex and also wants me to take DIM until we do blood work again in 2 - 3 weeks. Since joining this group I'm aware now that lowering E too much is not good either. Hope I'm doing the right thing.
Thanks
Tom

 

[tomguy]

If T levels are too high what protocols are usually used to bring them down and into normal ranges? For example, does one discontinue taking Test for awhile, or still contine to take Test but lower the dosage? Which method is the most effective? Also, I haven't had a Test shot since 3/18 (10 days) and have only recently started taking hcg but today I feel somewhat tired. I usually have high energy and I'm enthusiasitc about things. If my T levels are so elevated why should I feel tired/lack of energy, etc?

 

[buck]

I would think that skipping one week then returning with the weekly injections at a reduced dose would stabilize your T levels at a more appropriate level sooner.

 

[pmgamer18]

I had talked my Dr. into letting me up my Testim from 10 to 15 grams to see if it would help with my sore joints and muscles. All this did was drive my Total and Free T levels up way to high. Plus my E2 went nuts. I went for this to 100 mg. shots every week. I have been to high a lot of times in the last 21 yrs. All we did was lower the dose not stop if you stop the t you crash. If you plan to do 100 mg. shots along with the Hcg. I would call your Dr. and tell him you feel like you are carshing. It is much better to go down slow big fast changes in levels cause problems with symptoms that at least for me took months to get over. It has been better for me to go on a lower dose the to stop and crash.
Phil