Any older men on hrt have no libido/erections? Solutions?

[tomguy]

I'm 59 and a long time user of test and hgh. Only lately have I experienced no libido and no erections within the past week. I'm having my blood work done on Monday to see where my levels are at. The last time I had them done was end of december and Test and estrogen levels, dht, etc.spiked. I never cycled off and my new doctor is putting me on hcg. I'm very anxious and not sleeping well at all. Any reassurances or information would be very helpful to me. I even tried cialis but it didn't work. That was even more discouraging. My partner is very supportive but I don't know for how long.
Thanks,
Tom

 

[pmgamer18]

Tom

Did you have your Estrogen tested and not your Estradiol from me it is the high E2 Estradiol that does me in. Read my posts.
Phil

 

[mranak]

I never cycled off and my new doctor is putting me on hcg.

HRT isn't something that should be cycled. When you say that you are being put on hCG, do you mean hCG instead of your regular HRT protocol? Have you already implemented that change? What is you standard HRT protocol? Testosterone Cypionate? Androgel? How much? how often?

 

[tomguy]

mranak

Thank you for responding. Let me clarify things. I'm on hrt with Test and hgh but this new doctor wants me to cycle off the test for awhile to get my levels down to within normal ranges. He suggested that I do a ten day period of hcg to get my own system to start to work again. After the 10 day period and another 4 days off hcg he will start test protocol again for 10-12 weeks but also wants me to take arimidex to keep my estrogen levels from rising. I think I understand the theory behind this protocol but not sure it will work with me given my age. According to him though it shouldn't matter how old you are you're system needs to be jolted to start normal test production or there will be more complications later in life.
I'll be seeing my internist today to get blood work and ask his opinion, which I'm sure will be to stop everything. But also, I have located another Dr. in the area that provides hrt and will seek his advice as well. The dr that I currently use is an anti-ageing group located in Fl and they provide consultations over the phone. I'm only using them temporarily because my original Dr. got out of the business and didn't provide with a referal.

 

[tomguy]

Mranak

I forgot to answer you other question. I've been taking cypionate injections in the range of 100-175 weekly with .4mg of hgh genetropin. This has been spread over a 7-10 day period. I haven't been consistent in it's application but it doesn't seem to have bothered me. I have found out recently that by not administering this shot consistently I am sending my hormones on a roller coaster ride, which maybe what the problem is. I also have never taken anything to bring my E levels back down but they've never been this high before. I'm thinking that I should cut back on the Test.

 

[jboldman]

This approach seems to make no sense, jumpstart your oun test production and then suppress it with test. Maybe i am missing something.

jb

 

[buck]

As well as what complications can arise from staying on your hrt full time. I have seen no data pertaining to this.

 

[tomguy]

I was told that continuing forever on testosterone injections could lead to problems later in life with you liver and kidney's and perhaps even cancer. This maybe true to some extent but I agree with you that starting up your own test production and then shutting in down again doesn't make much sense. On other hand, this is a common procedure for body builders to use; they cycle on and cycle off their protocols all the time to ensure that their own body can function without assitance from an external source. Otherwise, you always need to rely on synthetics for the rest of your life. I can understand much younger men doing this but when you get to my age it seems a bit strange. I remember that when I started HRT my Test was at the low end of the range, which is why they thought i would be a good candidate for HRT. If I cycle off, I assume that I would go right back to either the low level T range or perhaps even lower.

 

[pmgamer18]

Most of the stuff out there about TRT causing cancer is out dated. More a more Dr. are finding high E2 is the bad guy here.
Phil

 

[buck]

Bodybuilders are asumeing that every thing is working ok to start with. Were as we have a known problem.

 

[Weatherlite]

Cycling is a term used for AAS. You don't cycle TRT. You're on TRT because for some reason your body does not produce enough test on its own. If it did you wouldn't need exogenous test in the first place. As for taking some time off for the body to get back into production again, that's just plain silly! If you body was producing in the first place then you wouldn't need TRT.

This place sounds like an AAS clinic posing as an anti-aging clinic.

Oh, BTW, it is possible for some to have their systems kickstarted and brought back to normal levels but they are usually BBers who had their HPTA shut down from AAS use.

 

[mranak]

..I've been taking cypionate injections in the range of 100-175 weekly...I also have never taken anything to bring my E levels back down but they've never been this high before. I'm thinking that I should cut back on the Test.

I agree that the thing to do is cut back on the testosterone, assuming that you testosterone serum (blood) levels are supraphysiological, which I suspect they probably are most of the time at that dosage.

This doctor might want to see if you do well without TRT at all. I'm not sure what your situation was before your started TRT. Maybe this is possible in your case. But I also hear of many physicians that believe patients are better with low-normal testosterone and low-testosterone symptoms than TRT and feeling great.

 

[tomguy]

When I originally got on Hormone Replacement Therapy, my testoterone levels were at the low end of the range, which made me a candidate for HRT. It wasn't critical that I go on HRT. It is only within the last several weeks that my hormones seem out of whack, which is causing me to have low libido and sometimes mood swings, etc. I'm hoping my new doctor can help me achieve a hormone balance.

 

[SWALE]

Well, mranak teased out of you what the problem is: your doctor does not have you on TRT. He has you on steroids. And what has happened to you is what always happens when guys maintain supraphysiological androgen levels. The benfits fall away. This is akin to guys being on a gram per week and cannot get it up.

Right, as Weatherlite said, TRT is not "cycled". Any doctor who prescribes in this manner does not know what they are doing. The body thrives on regularity. And going off for 10 days will not help you recover anything. It doesn't even make sense. Moreso, it demonstrates a profound ignorance on the part of the prescriber.

Arimidex must only be prescribed after labs demonstrate the need. It then needs to be titrated using additional labs.

I'll bet this doctor wants you to use way too much HCG as well.

I am afraid you are being treated by a charlatan. I am sorry to say your health is being damaged because of it.

 

[tomguy]

Thanks for being so candid - although it did not make me feel any better. I was recently given a referal by a reputable physician to a doctor near my home that specializes in hormone replacement therapy for men. I made an appointment with him for next week and I'm currently checking out his credential and practice as well. My latest lab results, which were 8 weeks old, showed high estrogen levels, which is why the clinic in FL told me to take the arimidex. Since that time I have discussed the situation with my internist and we decided to keep me on the 100mg weekly dose of Test until I get to speak with the new HRT doc. He also drew blood yesterday to look at all my levels again. I will discontinue the use of arimidex until I see the new physician. I was also briefly on hcg, which I discontinued after speaking with my internist and realizing that cycling was an inappropriate treatment for me.
I did check out the physicians and pharmacists credentials, etc with the Anti-ageing clinic in FL and spoke with them as well. They are all licensed in the state of FL. I do agree, however, that it sounds like they are not in the business of providing HRT care. I new something was wrong when they suggested cycling that's why I asked this question on this message board. I was looking for help not criticisms. I only recently experienced negative side effects and I'm trying to correct that. Everyone has been very helpful so far in steering me in another direction and in asking me questions. Thanks.
Tom

 

[tomguy]

In response to getting it up. I have only recently experienced this problem and it's very scary. For one week I wasn't interested in sex or getting erections. I However, this past Tuesday I was my old self again and horny as hell. I had sex in the morning and then while at work thinking about sex I kept getting an errection. Also Wednesday I had sex. I also woke up most days this week with morning wood but this has been inconsistent of late, which is why I was posing the question and trying to find solutions. I knew something was wrong.

 

[pmgamer18]

How long were you taking Arimidex and how much this started happening to me after taking .5 mgs. every day for 4 weeks. I was unable to have sex for over 10 yrs. After testing my E2 and finding it to be 40 points over the top of the range. In less then 4 weeks my ED was 80% better and I could reach an orgasm. I am now 61 and feel my sex life is like it was when I was in my 20's. I have been on TRT sence I was 40 yrs. old I lost my Sex life at 50 after all of this time it was just high E2.
Phil

 

[tomguy]

Phil
Thanks so much to for response. I've taken your advice before and it worked.
Tom

 

[jboldman]

This is a little out there but i ran across it the other day and it might be pertinent:

jb

==================

J Sex Marital Ther. 2003 May-Jun;29(3):207-13. Related Articles, Links


Treatment of erectile dysfunction with pycnogenol and L-arginine.

Stanislavov R, Nikolova V.

Seminological Laboratory SBALAG, Maichin Dom, Sofia, Bulgaria. rstanik@abv.bg

Penile erection requires the relaxation of the cavernous smooth muscle, which is triggered by nitric oxide (NO). We investigated the possibility of overcoming erectile dysfunction (ED) by increasing the amounts of endogenous NO. For this purpose, we orally administered Pycnogenol, because it is known to increase production of NO by nitric oxide syntase together with L-arginine as substrate for this enzyme. The study included 40 men, aged 25-45 years, without confirmed organic erectile dysfunction. Throughout the 3-month trial period, patients received 3 ampoules Sargenor a day, a drinkable solution of the dipeptide arginyl aspartate (equivalent to 1.7 g L-arginine per day). During the second month, patients were additionally supplemented with 40 mg Pycnogenol two times per day; during the third month, the daily dosage was increased to three 40-mg Pycnogenol tablets. We obtained a sexual function questionnaire and a sexual activity diary from each patient. After 1 month of treatment with L-arginine, a statistically nonsignificant number of 2 patients (5%) experienced a normal erection. Treatment with a combination of L-arginine and Pycnogenol for the following month increased the number of men with restored sexual ability to 80%. Finally, after the third month of treatment, 92.5% of the men experienced a normal erection. We conclude that oral administration of L-arginine in combination with Pycnogenol causes a significant improvement in sexual function in men with ED without any side effects.

 

[SWALE]

Excellent post.

Just an observation, after reading literally thousands of posts written by men who suffer either ED or hormonal issues: how many of them would have taken these supplements, then abandoned them if they did not work in the first three days?