Armour Dosage

[smitty4]

I am currently taking .5 grain of Armour every morning, but I have a question. Is the jump from 0.5 grain to 1.0 grain a large jump as far as its impact on ones levels?

The reason I ask is that I still have some hypothyroid symptoms. I am also getting tired of watching my unibrow dwindling to what is now about half an eyebrow above each eye.

Of course I wouldn't increase it without an ok from my physician, but I was wondering if an increase of that size would typically require more labs to be drawn or if it might be something that can be done based on anecdotal evidence such as how one feels.

 

[howard-sd]

I am currently taking .5 grain of Armour every morning, but I have a question. Is the jump from 0.5 grain to 1.0 grain a large jump as far as its impact on ones levels?

From what I've heard, the body's response is not linear. What is more important are your clinical symptoms and your labs. If you have labs, please post them here with the ranges. If not, I suggest you do a full thyroid panel (T3 total and free, T4 total and free, TSH). That the only way you'll know how your body is reacting to the dose you're doing.

In my case, after each blood test, we increased the dose of Armour until the TSH dropped to an unacceptably low level then backed it down, even though the Free T3 and Free T4 didn't get as high as my doctor hoped. I'm now on 2.5 grains. Symptoms are 80% gone.

 

[jboldman]

why would you care about tsh if you have free t3 levels?

jb

 

[pmgamer18]

From what I've heard, the body's response is not linear. What is more important are your clinical symptoms and your labs. If you have labs, please post them here with the ranges. If not, I suggest you do a full thyroid panel (T3 total and free, T4 total and free, TSH). That the only way you'll know how your body is reacting to the dose you're doing.

In my case, after each blood test, we increased the dose of Armour until the TSH dropped to an unacceptably low level then backed it down, even though the Free T3 and Free T4 didn't get as high as my doctor hoped. I'm now on 2.5 grains. Symptoms are 80% gone.

My wife's Dr. did the same thing.

 

[howard-sd]

why would you care about tsh if you have free t3 levels?

jb

I'm not a physician, but I've asked a lot of questions. TSH is the stimulating hormone for the thyroid to produce the thyroid hormones. If we take too much supplemental thyroid and the TSH gets fully supressed, the thyroid will shut down and we would experience total thyroid failure. No point in prematurely killing off the thyroid gland.

It's a similar parallel to testosterone therapy. If we do only testosterone supplementation, the testicles shrink and eventually shut down. That's why we add HCG, which mimics the effect of LH (luteinizing hormone), "prompting" the testicles to produce testosterone and thus stay active. I haven't heard of a parallel substance that we can inject that will act in the same way as TSH.

 

[SWALE]

If you are going to take a second 30mg (1/2 grain) dose of Armour each day, split the dose.

Do not worry about your TSH levels. It has no bearing. Watch Free T4 and Free T3.

 

[smitty4]

Thanks everyone for the input!

howard-sd - I had a hunch that the body's response was not linear. That's why I was wondering if it was a large increase.

SWALE'S approach makes sense to me. I would think that free T3 and free T4 levels are what would be the important factor.

 

[smitty4]

How long does it take for T3 & T4 levels to even out after a change in dosage? Is it like Test, where you need to wait at least 3 weeks or so before you have labs drawn?

 

[DSA]

If you are going to take a second 30mg (1/2 grain) dose of Armour each day, split the dose.

Do not worry about your TSH levels. It has no bearing. Watch Free T4 and Free T3.

Does that apply for any daily dosage of Armour? If you're taking 2.5 grains, should you be doing some of it in the morning and some in the afternoon?

I've often wondered about the very short half life of T3 and once per day dosing of Armour.

Does anyone have opinoins on Armour with or without food?

 

[smitty4]

If you take it sublingually, I don't think it would matter whether it was with food or not.

 

[Rangeball]

It is my understanding the half life of T3 is 24 hours...

Swale, for your hypothyroid patients, what is the highest dose of armour you've had to prescribe to get symptom relief? Does dosage correlate with body weight, ie more needed at higher LBM and bodyweights?

Do you treat hashimoto's any differently?

 

[DSA]

It is my understanding the half life of T3 is 24 hours...

Swale, for your hypothyroid patients, what is the highest dose of armour you've had to prescribe to get symptom relief? Does dosage correlate with body weight, ie more needed at higher LBM and bodyweights?

Do you treat hashimoto's any differently?

The folks over in alt.support.thyroid have always referenced an 8 hour half life for T3.

When I did Wilson's Protocol for thyroiod treatment, it was timed release T3 twice per day (morning and late afternoon).

Swale's comment about splitting the second 30mg dose to the origianl poster suggests a short half life, otherwise, why bother splitting the dose?

I used to split my dose of 2.5 grains as 1.5 in the AM and 1.0 in the early afternoon, but I don't really notice a difference taking it that way or as a single large dose in the AM. I have only about 10% of my thyroid left after a thyroidectomy, so maybe I react differently than a typical hypothyroid patient.

 

[Rangeball]

The folks over in alt.support.thyroid have always referenced an 8 hour half life for T3.

Then why does this page from there state "...about a day", which I interpret as almost 24 hours?

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/t3.php

Swale's comment about splitting the second 30mg dose to the origianl poster suggests a short half life, otherwise, why bother splitting the dose?

Exactly, which is why I asked am an hoping he responds.

I currently take my 2 grains (still titrating) all at once in the morning on an empty stomach. If it makes a difference, I'll start splitting the dose but if the half life is in fact 24 hours, all at once is much more convenient.

 

[pmgamer18]

The folks over in alt.support.thyroid have always referenced an 8 hour half life for T3.

When I did Wilson's Protocol for thyroiod treatment, it was timed release T3 twice per day (morning and late afternoon).

Swale's comment about splitting the second 30mg dose to the origianl poster suggests a short half life, otherwise, why bother splitting the dose?

I used to split my dose of 2.5 grains as 1.5 in the AM and 1.0 in the early afternoon, but I don't really notice a difference taking it that way or as a single large dose in the AM. I have only about 10% of my thyroid left after a thyroidectomy, so maybe I react differently than a typical hypothyroid patient.

Could it be he means to take half the dose my Dr. told my wife he can't up her dose more then 15 mgs. at a time and I remember reading this at Armour.com.
http://www.armourthyroid.com/armourthyroid_pi.pdf
Under dosing it says to go up 15 mgs. every 2 to 3 weeks.

 

[DSA]

Then why does this page from there state "...about a day", which I interpret as almost 24 hours?

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/t3.php

Beats me, but I frequented that forum for many years, and the common wisdom was always 8 hours or so. As in any public forum, the forum owner and the forum participants may not always put out the same information.

I know several doctors I've read on the web say to take Armour 2x per day. I tried it for many months, and didn't "feel" any different, but would like to know what Swale thinks as well.

Exactly, which is why I asked am an hoping he responds.

I currently take my 2 grains (still titrating) all at once in the morning on an empty stomach. If it makes a difference, I'll start splitting the dose but if the half life is in fact 24 hours, all at once is much more convenient.

 

[Vforcer2]

Beats me, but I frequented that forum for many years, and the common wisdom was always 8 hours or so. As in any public forum, the forum owner and the forum participants may not always put out the same information.

I know several doctors I've read on the web say to take Armour 2x per day. I tried it for many months, and didn't "feel" any different, but would like to know what Swale thinks as well.

I currently take 3 grains a day sub-L split in 2 doses, and am still looking to increase my dosage until I get my basal morning temps up to 98 degrees. I can say the Armour has made all the difference for me. Cognition, memory, mental sharpness, skin, acne, food allergies, energy, and more were all fairly well resolved by Armour. There is evidence to suggest low T levels can also be improved with proper Armour dosing.

My tonsils and adnoids were removed as a child, and this reduces blood flow to the thryoid causing it to become sluggish in some people. I was skinny as a rail prior to this surgery. Since the surgery, I have struggled with weight my whole life. These organs are designed in our body for a reason and should not be so quickly removed.

 

[Rangeball]

My tonsils and adnoids were removed as a child, and this reduces blood flow to the thryoid causing it to become sluggish in some people. I was skinny as a rail prior to this surgery. Since the surgery, I have struggled with weight my whole life. These organs are designed in our body for a reason and should not be so quickly removed.

That's something I'v enever thought of. Me too. Plus the hospital made it worse by giving me all the ice cream I wanted...

How are you going about taking your armour sub L? Just put it under your tongue and letting it dissolve? How long does it take? I tried this once, kept swallowing the "juice", didn't work well at all so I'm sure I did it wrong...

 

[Vforcer2]

That's something I'v enever thought of. Me too. Plus the hospital made it worse by giving me all the ice cream I wanted...

How are you going about taking your armour sub L? Just put it under your tongue and letting it dissolve? How long does it take? I tried this once, kept swallowing the "juice", didn't work well at all so I'm sure I did it wrong...

I take the tablet and break it into 2 or 3 pieces with my front teeth then slide them under my tongue, it dissolves quicker that way. They dissolve in less than 10 minutes or so and I don't worry about swallowing some of it. Most is absorbed Sub-L, and some will get processed through digestive absorption.

 

[Rangeball]

Thanks. I may give that a try.

I really hope Swale will jump in and give us some input on the other issues.

How often does he check this board?

 

[smitty4]

I am pretty sure that Swale mentioned one time that a thyroid guru had mentioned to him that biting Armour up was a good idea and I have done so since. I recently started biting it up and putting it between my cheek and gum, like it was snuff. It desolves relatively quickly. As Vforcer2 says, I am sure that some of it gets processed through digestive absorption, but the rest is abosbed sublingually.