Best PCT for 20-week Test Cycle?

[sepsin]

Hey guys,
I’d like to get your thoughts on the best pharmaceuticals for a proper PCT after a 20-week cycle of 350mg of test + GH.

I understand that ideally people might bridge back to cruise levels, but for a “classic” PCT, what would you recommend?

I know using hCG during the cycle can help maximize the success rate of a PCT.

I’m considering doing just enclomiphene for the PCT, what do you think about that approach?

 

[Cman90]

Hey guys,
I’d like to get your thoughts on the best pharmaceuticals for a proper PCT after a 20-week cycle of 350mg of test + GH.

I understand that ideally people might bridge back to cruise levels, but for a “classic” PCT, what would you recommend?

I know using hCG during the cycle can help maximize the success rate of a PCT.

I’m considering doing just enclomiphene for the PCT, what do you think about that approach?

First, I'd highly advise against it because you'll lose most of your gains any way and potentially be permanently hypogonadal.

With that out the way, your PCT protocol is about as good as you can do. Maybe keep Ralox or Nolva on deck in case you get spicy nips or other e2 sides.

Regardless, your natural test will be shut off for some time, possibly permanently, and you'll feel like shit.

 

[aaddpp]

I’d like to get your thoughts on the best pharmaceuticals for a proper PCT after a 20-week cycle of 350mg of test + GH.

I understand that ideally people might bridge back to cruise levels, but for a “classic” PCT, what would you recommend?

I know using hCG during the cycle can help maximize the success rate of a PCT.

I’m considering doing just enclomiphene for the PCT, what do you think about that approach?

50mg clomid 20mg nolvadex always got me full recovery. But you didn't use hcg during the cycle or at least at the start of your pct so it would probably not work as good for you..

 

[sepsin]

50mg clomid 20mg nolvadex always got me full recovery. But you didn't use hcg during the cycle or at least at the start of your pct so it would probably not work as good for you..

well I haven’t started my cycle yet, but I’m planning on doing hCG 250 IU 3x per week (Mon, Wed, and Fri).

Besides, I’d def do Nolvadex but alongside it I was thinking abt enclo instead of clomid.

In theory it’s more selective and better right? The only downside is that it’s mostly faked with regular clomid though IIRC

 

[aaddpp]

Yes Enclo is the trans‐isomer while clomid is a mixture of trans and cis isomers.
Enclo appears to be the active isomer boosting testosterone effectively, while zuclomiphene is the inactive, estrogenic isomer that causes side effects like mood swings, fatigue etc. and potentially lowers testosterone. Theoretically this should mean pure enclomiphene offers better hormonal balance and fewer estrogen-related issues compared to the same dosage + the other isomer..
So yes enclo should be the same.
I found out that it has a synergy with nolva and it's one of those cases where 1+1=3

 

[sepsin]

Yes Enclo is the trans‐isomer while clomid is a mixture of trans and cis isomers.
Enclo appears to be the active isomer boosting testosterone effectively, while zuclomiphene is the inactive, estrogenic isomer that causes side effects like mood swings, fatigue etc. and potentially lowers testosterone. Theoretically this should mean pure enclomiphene offers better hormonal balance and fewer estrogen-related issues compared to the same dosage + the other isomer..
So yes enclo should be the same.
I found out that it has a synergy with nolva and it's one of those cases where 1+1=3

wow, thanks for the explanation.

Would you say that my hCG dosage is also good?

It's going to be my first cycle, and my test dose is not super high (not sure if this matters in regards to the hCG protocol).

 

[aaddpp]

250 x3 times a week during the cycle should be enough. I suggest you to up the dose of hcg for your last 3-4 hcg administrations to 500-600 (just before you start enclo or during the first days of it). But I think you should also adjust it based on what you see, if you feel your balls are too small when going into pct you up the hcg.

First cycle and you already on gh?...

 

[sepsin]

250 x3 times a week during the cycle should be enough. I suggest you to up the dose of hcg for your last 3-4 hcg administrations to 500-600 (just before you start enclo or during the first days of it). But I think you should also adjust it based on what you see, if you feel your balls are too small when going into pct you up the hcg.

First cycle and you already on gh?...

sounds good, another question I have is when should I stop admnistring hCG?

Should it be once I stop the test injections, or should I keep taking it while on PCT?

and no, I dropped GH mostly due to budget limitations.

 

[Cman90]

sounds good, another question I have is when should I stop admnistring hCG?

Should it be once I stop the test injections, or should I keep taking it while on PCT?

and no, I dropped GH mostly due to budget limitations.

Man I really hope you don't do this, it's such a bad idea.

If you do, I think it would be good if you made a cycle log to show other young guys how you'll lose all of the gains during pct and feel like shit.

You've had many experienced members explain to you why this is such a bad idea and how you'll hardly retain any lean tissue from the cycle. Would make more gains if you trained naturally and skipped shutting down your HPT axis.

What is your motivation for going through with this? Do you think we are misleading you?

 

[sepsin]

Man I really hope you don't do this, it's such a bad idea.

If you do, I think it would be good if you made a cycle log to show other young guys how you'll lose all of the gains during pct and feel like shit.

You've had many experienced members explain to you why this is such a bad idea and how you'll hardly retain any lean tissue from the cycle. Would make more gains if you trained naturally and skipped shutting down your HPT axis.

What is your motivation for going through with this? Do you think we are misleading you?

No, sir, I don’t think you’re misleading me at all, you’ve actually been a huge help, and your probably the user that cares the most about me, so I'm super grateful in regards to that.

Long story short: I definitely agree that this is a BAD decision.

However, based on what I’ve read in both anecdotal reports and the literature, I don’t expect to become hypogonadal to the point of needing lifelong TRT at this stage (though, of course, that risk ALWAYS exists).

With a proper PCT (Enclo + Nolva), using hCG during the cycle, and considering my age, I’m confident I’ll be able to restore around 80–90% of my pre-cycle hormone levels. That’s what most anecdotal evidence suggests (like the user above who just replied to this thread) from just one cycle with these supports.

Regarding the concern about losing all gains, I have to slightly disagree once again.

Yes, all the water and fluid-related “gains” from testosterone will go away, but based on what other users and anecdotal reports suggest (also from this forum), I should be able to maintain the muscle I could have gained naturally. Anything above that “natural” ceiling will likely be lost.

So yes, you’re absolutely correct that doing it the natural way is by far the best approach.

But in response to your question, “what is your objective with this?”, my goal is to achieve in 6 months what would otherwise take me 2–2.5 years naturally.

 

[sepsin]

Man I really hope you don't do this, it's such a bad idea.

If you do, I think it would be good if you made a cycle log to show other young guys how you'll lose all of the gains during pct and feel like shit.

You've had many experienced members explain to you why this is such a bad idea and how you'll hardly retain any lean tissue from the cycle. Would make more gains if you trained naturally and skipped shutting down your HPT axis.

What is your motivation for going through with this? Do you think we are misleading you?

No, sir, I don’t think you’re misleading me at all, you’ve actually been a huge help, and your probably the user that cares the most about me, so I'm super grateful in regards to that.

Long story short: I definitely agree that this is a BAD decision.

However, based on what I’ve read in both anecdotal reports and the literature, I don’t expect to become hypogonadal to the point of needing lifelong TRT at this stage (though, of course, that risk ALWAYS exists).

With a proper PCT (Enclo + Nolva), using hCG during the cycle, and considering my age, I’m confident I’ll be able to restore around 80–90% of my pre-cycle hormone levels. That’s what most anecdotal evidence suggests (like the user above who just replied to this thread) from just one cycle with these supports.

Regarding the concern about losing all gains, I have to slightly disagree once again.

Yes, all the water and fluid-related “gains” from testosterone will go away, but based on what other users and anecdotal reports suggest (also from this forum), I should be able to maintain the muscle I could have gained naturally. Anything above that “natural” ceiling will likely be lost.

So yes, you’re absolutely correct that doing it the natural way is by far the best approach.

But in response to your question, “what is your objective with this?”, my goal is to achieve in 6 months what would otherwise take me 2–2.5 years naturally.

But yea, doing this will come with health problems and complications that I'm sure I might regret in the future.

Also, once I start the cycle. I'll make sure to always post you guys about my progress.

 

[Cman90]

No, sir, I don’t think you’re misleading me at all, you’ve actually been a huge help, and your probably the user that cares the most about me, so I'm super grateful in regards to that.

Long story short: I definitely agree that this is a BAD decision.

However, based on what I’ve read in both anecdotal reports and the literature, I don’t expect to become hypogonadal to the point of needing lifelong TRT at this stage (though, of course, that risk ALWAYS exists).

With a proper PCT (Enclo + Nolva), using hCG during the cycle, and considering my age, I’m confident I’ll be able to restore around 80–90% of my pre-cycle hormone levels. That’s what most anecdotal evidence suggests (like the user above who just replied to this thread) from just one cycle with these supports.

Regarding the concern about losing all gains, I have to slightly disagree once again.

Yes, all the water and fluid-related “gains” from testosterone will go away, but based on what other users and anecdotal reports suggest (also from this forum), I should be able to maintain the muscle I could have gained naturally. Anything above that “natural” ceiling will likely be lost.

So yes, you’re absolutely correct that doing it the natural way is by far the best approach.

But in response to your question, “what is your objective with this?”, my goal is to achieve in 6 months what would otherwise take me 2–2.5 years naturally.

Well said. Sounds like you are aware of what you are getting your self into.

Also, once I start the cycle. I'll make sure to always post you guys about my progress.

Great, I'll be following. I hope it goes well for you.

 

[aaddpp]

Man I really hope you don't do this, it's such a bad idea.

If you do, I think it would be good if you made a cycle log to show other young guys how you'll lose all of the gains during pct and feel like shit.

You've had many experienced members explain to you why this is such a bad idea and how you'll hardly retain any lean tissue from the cycle. Would make more gains if you trained naturally and skipped shutting down your HPT axis.

What is your motivation for going through with this? Do you think we are misleading you?

May I ask you why you say that its a bad idea and that he will lose all his gains? Are you saying that he would be better off not doing pct and bridging?
Of course during pct he will lose some gains I agree with that but with proper nutrition, training and supplements he could maintain some of what he gained..
Now on the other hand I also know people who stopped lifting when going into pct , started to eat like shit and they ended up worse than before...

I am not attacking you, I'm genuinely asking because I did not understand your point of view