Bridges are necessary....

[Pup'nIrn]

Hey Guys,
I recently had time to spend with a national BB competitor and enjoyed the new perspective. He began telling me he bridged always and is currently using the 10mg d-bol morning bridge and has for several years between cycles. He said he really only cycles hard when getting ready for a show and then just supplements his growth with some low dosage d-bol, anavar or primo (availability dependant) and a really good diet.

He said that recently he found even better results with 10mg d-bol upon waking and 25mg clomid at night.

Now I understand giving receptors rest and clean out time is what most people preach but like alot times, those that are preaching really don't look the part. No offense to anyone out there but maybe whats being preached by the majority isn't what the elite are doing. This bro looked the part of a future pro and therefore I have taken interest in his method. I have used low dosage EQ 200mg/wk for 6-8months with excellent results so I don't see where this would not be as productive.

Pup

Replys are welcome.....

 

[gman67]

Sure it works but a bridge is just an extension of the cycle. Studies have shown that even small amounts of AS will affect htpa. So while he is trying to give his body a break by taking smaller amounts, even using a small amount of dbol he is never truly coming off.

 

[MaxRep]

Actually it's nothing new for high level amateurs and the pro's to simply never come off. A bridge is simply a low dose cycle and many upper level BB's say they're "off" cycle when what they mean is they're not on a full cycle, only a low dose bridge. This has been going on for 20+ years.

I can't believe there's still anyone who thinks Androgen receptors (AR) need to clean out or have time off. There's zero basis in science for this cock-eyed myth and in science and the real world, just the opposite gives the best results.

So people are way off base if they think the reason for going off cycle has anything to do with the AR. It has everything to do with your HPT axis and ensuring you don't have to be on HRT for the rest of your life.

Unless a person really has a shot at being an elite BB, it makes no sense to stay on for extended periods of time with either long cycles or the same thing through bridging. All you're doing is increasing your chances of permanently screwing up your HPTA and being forced to take a low dose Test shot for the rest of your life. Some of you may think "so what" but I guarantee you'll feel differently 20 years from now.

And for those who do have a shot at being an elite BB, you take the risk and pay the piper later... all in the name of 15 minutes of un/low paid fame.

MaxRep

 

[Deacon]

I agree with what Max has said and was about to reply the sameway - this guy is a pro or about to try and become a pro - his outlook on cycling is very different than those of us who use cycles to simply get bigger and stronger for other goals. He will naturally have a more strenuous drug usage.

IMO being on like that - even a 10mg d-bol bridge - sooner or later will be a bad thing for you - for somone who is a pro or turning pro it is worth the risk

 

[gman67]

I agree with what Max has said and was about to reply the sameway - this guy is a pro or about to try and become a pro - his outlook on cycling is very different than those of us who use cycles to simply get bigger and stronger for other goals. He will naturally have a more strenuous drug usage.

IMO being on like that - even a 10mg d-bol bridge - sooner or later will be a bad thing for you - for somone who is a pro or turning pro it is worth the risk

Agreed,,and I agree with Max about the receptors not having to clean out as I've read that over and over. So I reworded my initial post.

 

[scooter74]

and what's your opinion of bridging with slin?

 

[fishing trip]

slin bridge

and what's your opinion of bridging with slin?

Yes, slin is the shit to bridge with. I've been off 8 weeks now, and kept my gains.!!!!! Igf-1 works well for this too. Einstein wrote an intersting article on PCT with slin, IgF, creatine, whey, carbs.


Work wonders for me
JB

 

[Tank01]

Thanks max for debunking (yet again) the myth about Androgen receptors being "clogged" or needing cleaning...

Id also like to add that using dbol in the AM (10mg or less ed in the AM) or using primobolan (under 200mg per week) does not affect your HTPA... I thought the same was true for anavar but I was told differently... somthing about it having a longer life in the body and its being very tightly bound to the AR. I guess the reason Dbol is ok is because by the time the circadian rythm for test peaks its out of your body. If someone can tell me when exactly this time is Id be most gratefull... I belive it somewhere around mid day. Insulin, GH, and IGF are all good options to bridge with ... or at least to run PCT with.

tank

 

[PDP]

If you wanna "bridge" in the bodybuilding sense then low dose test 24/7 is what you'd wanna do, ramping up for bulking and changing to anabolic for cutting.

If you wanna "bridge" in the traditional sense then slin and GH is what you'd wanna do.

If you are a rec bodybuilder then don't f#$king "bridge"

.... someone up this thread said "whey, rceatine and carbs?" That is no bridge, that's an everyday thang.

 

[MJM]

How potent is Slin?I read Pgf2a makes Slin much more potent and doses should be about 10% of what they normally are.Would you guys use IGF-1 during the cycle or in your " off " period.I need a good way to hold my gains.Thanks.

 

[black0ut]

wow mjm, while you hijacked this thread for yourself, you actually have a good question. Go post that as it's own thread only AFTER you search around and don't find exactly what you're looking for. I'd love to know about the slin, IGF< and PG, maybe some GH too

 

[MJM]

Thanks bro.I'm going to do it, I've always wanted some serious mass and stuff.But we might not get very many good replies because it's my thread.Here we go bro, only a few minutes and we'll be able to tell my man.

wow mjm, while you hijacked this thread for yourself, you actually have a good question. Go post that as it's own thread only AFTER you search around and don't find exactly what you're looking for. I'd love to know about the slin, IGF< and PG, maybe some GH too

 

[MJM]

Okay I posted it man.It's up.Sorry for taking over your thread bro.

 

[Diablo570]

How potent is Slin?I read Pgf2a makes Slin much more potent and doses should be about 10% of what they normally are.Would you guys use IGF-1 during the cycle or in your " off " period.I need a good way to hold my gains.Thanks.

I would stay away from Slin myself bro. Its very dangerous to use if your not being watched while on it and if you dont know what you are doing, you could become a life long diabetic and even dead.

I'll leave slin to the huge mofo's out there and the crazy ones

Diablo

 

[Pup'nIrn]

I would stay away from Slin myself bro. Its very dangerous to use if your not being watched while on it and if you dont know what you are doing, you could become a life long diabetic and even dead.

I'll leave slin to the huge mofo's out there and the crazy ones

Diablo

My firm belief is that although d-bol does suppress test levels, because it does not supress fully at 10mg/day, the body is still producing. The problems that arise and need for HRT later in life with these pro's is not from the low dosages, its from the repeated high dosages cycles that fully suppress for 20wks plus. Its much easier to for the body the return to normal after only being supressed by 15% or so.

All I am saying is there are perfect examples of bodybuilders who did well with low dosages years round vs monster cycles back in the early 80's when pct was not available. My belief is that the low dose/ longer duration cycle is both safer and more effective than most of the hard cycle you see on this board. Again, I know I will catch hell on this board for my belief but oh well...... Pup

 

[NDK]

Tank what makes you think dbol does not affect your HPTA. You will not recover natural test production while taking anything. You simply can't fool your body.

 

[rtlltj]

how many cycles and time length of being on determines if your going to need hrt when you get older. if someone ran 1 10-12 week cycle a year from 22-30 would there be a good chance they would need hrt?

 

[gman67]

Tank what makes you think dbol does not affect your HPTA. You will not recover natural test production while taking anything. You simply can't fool your body.

true

 

[MaxRep]

My firm belief is that although d-bol does suppress test levels, because it does not supress fully at 10mg/day, the body is still producing. The problems that arise and need for HRT later in life with these pro's is not from the low dosages, its from the repeated high dosages cycles that fully suppress for 20wks plus. Its much easier to for the body the return to normal after only being supressed by 15% or so.

All I am saying is there are perfect examples of bodybuilders who did well with low dosages years round vs monster cycles back in the early 80's when pct was not available. My belief is that the low dose/ longer duration cycle is both safer and more effective than most of the hard cycle you see on this board. Again, I know I will catch hell on this board for my belief but oh well...... Pup

Pup,
I have no idea where you pulled that 15% out of, but I can make a good guess...

I really don't mean to come down on you but between your remarks about the AR needing rest and time off, the 15% suppression and your "firm beliefs" I think you should spend time doing some real research. You wouldn't "catch hell on this board" if you would do some research and start to understand a little something about what you're talking about.

As far as bodybuilders doing well with low dosages, absolutely possible. I'm constantly harping on the fact that ones results are way more contingent upon their training, diet and rest than their AAS cycle. However, low dose year around cycles... that person is just another prime candidate for life long HRT.

Here's a study to get you started in your research that you may find interesting. It was done with 15mg dbol/day. HPTA got screwed up real quick as evidenced by sperm production and sperm abonormalities. Good luck to anyone going forward with a low dose Dbol bridge.

MaxRep

__________________________________________________________________

1: Contraception. 1977 Feb;15(2):151-62.

Effects of an anabolic steroid (metandienone) on spermatogenesis.

Holma PK.

PIP:
The effect of the oral administration of metandienone (Dianabol) (15 mg/day), an anabolic steroid, on spermatogenesis was studied in 15 male athletes. The sperm density per ml decreased 46% after 1 month of use and 73% after 2 months: the latter value being highly pathologic. 3 subjects became azoospermic, 1 of whom had only 1 million sperms/ml. The percentage of motile sperms decreased to about 30% after 2 months of use. The percentage of normally configured sperms decreased from 73 to 65% after 1 month and to 42% after 2 months. There was about a 100% increase in the percentage of sperms with amorphous heads after 2 months of use. There were also marked increases in the frequency of other sperm abnormalities. After 2 months of use, semen acid phosphatase activity was markedly reduced, while semen fructose concentrations were markedly changed after 1 month. The observed changes were reversed after discontinuation of use.

PMID: 837689 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Pup'nIrn]

Max,
I do appreciate your input but am offended that you believe I just take what some dumb ass says for granted as the truth.....because I don't! I am presently working on getting my own study published right now, in a major medical journal, using protocols that break most of the rules in mainstream sports rehab of anterior shoulder instability and the need for capsular repair. Therefore, I am very much the type of person who questions every "set in stone" method or previously tested and accepted practice as I am a nerd for well prepared studies.

I especially question those studies like the one you gave me dealing with spermatogenesis and contraception. Although realted, it is not conclusive to the degree of true hormone level impairment because that is not what they were testing for. Now if this study had run blood test s had good control groups, more than 15 participants using 10mg d-bol adminstered in the morning not throughout the day, I might be interested. Remember I did not say you wouldn't have some degree of disfunction or impairment, just not full test shut down with this method.

New developments in medicine, whether in gear or new treatments for the common cold, are made because they look beyond what is accepted in the mainstream and then test and apply new theories. These ideas will remain nothing more than ideas until put into practice using controlled variables and measuring true outcome.

Now although I would love to show you ten studies to back my beliefs, they are not and will never be available because there is no money in pharmaceutical industry for steriod research in an athletic setting. Until then, I will have to deal with Contraception studies being slammed in my face to prove your theories. I am planning to use a one of the orthopedic surg. that I work with to run blood work to determine the degree of hormone impairment on myself. Until then, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Pup

Pup,
I have no idea where you pulled that 15% out of, but I can make a good guess...

I really don't mean to come down on you but between your remarks about the AR needing rest and time off, the 15% suppression and your "firm beliefs" I think you should spend time doing some real research. You wouldn't "catch hell on this board" if you would do some research and start to understand a little something about what you're talking about.

As far as bodybuilders doing well with low dosages, absolutely possible. I'm constantly harping on the fact that ones results are way more contingent upon their training, diet and rest than their AAS cycle. However, low dose year around cycles... that person is just another prime candidate for life long HRT.

Here's a study to get you started in your research that you may find interesting. It was done with 15mg dbol/day. HPTA got screwed up real quick as evidenced by sperm production and sperm abonormalities. Good luck to anyone going forward with a low dose Dbol bridge.

MaxRep

__________________________________________________________________

1: Contraception. 1977 Feb;15(2):151-62.

Effects of an anabolic steroid (metandienone) on spermatogenesis.

Holma PK.

PIP:
The effect of the oral administration of metandienone (Dianabol) (15 mg/day), an anabolic steroid, on spermatogenesis was studied in 15 male athletes. The sperm density per ml decreased 46% after 1 month of use and 73% after 2 months: the latter value being highly pathologic. 3 subjects became azoospermic, 1 of whom had only 1 million sperms/ml. The percentage of motile sperms decreased to about 30% after 2 months of use. The percentage of normally configured sperms decreased from 73 to 65% after 1 month and to 42% after 2 months. There was about a 100% increase in the percentage of sperms with amorphous heads after 2 months of use. There were also marked increases in the frequency of other sperm abnormalities. After 2 months of use, semen acid phosphatase activity was markedly reduced, while semen fructose concentrations were markedly changed after 1 month. The observed changes were reversed after discontinuation of use.

PMID: 837689 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]