burnt out

[KillTheGymStayHumble15]

Does anyone else feel like hitting all muscle groups twice a week takes a toll on your body and tends to lead to injury? I have been experimenting with different splits/routines for the past 6 months and I definitely feel that my strength builds faster hitting everything twice weekly. However, going till failure everyday and only giving your muscles two days to heal seems like too much sometimes. I don't care as much about strength as I do about putting on size, there are guys who are bigger than I am but I can lift more than they do. I'd 'Ike to see what you guys think, whether its more effective to hit chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs twice weekly or just once? And if twice a week is working for some of you, what is the best way to avoid joint pain\intense soreness? Thanks!

 

[Switcher]

There could be a good reason why the bigger guys are not lifting as much as you are, specially if you are also discussing joint pain/intense soreness.

 

[D-Ballin]

If you're running twice weekly frequency, then you're kind of going to be sacrificing daily volume for weekly volume. Regulate your fatigue, take a few days to deload if necessary.

I'm doing pplpp. I do a heavy day 4-6 reps, sometimes triples. And a hypertrophy day, 10 range. My weekly volume is only a few sets higher than it would be on a five day split per muscle group. Growth is nice, but there is some wear and tear. Skullcrushers have never been a problem, but they're getting dropped to once a week. So on. . .

You don't need to go to total failure every day doing this. Have you read the hst resources? If not, do so, and then apply to what you have going on, even if you don't do the full program. Principles are sound. Load progressively, keep yourself anabolic.

 

[Docd187123]

Reason number 137 training till failure is rarely optimal and should be minimized.

My current protocol has me doing 6 bench press lifts or variants a week, 3 squat lifts or variants, and 3 deadlifts or variants a week. I never train to failure and my strength is shooting up without any new injuries.

 

[dnoyez]

Reason number 137 training till failure is rarely optimal and should be minimized.

My current protocol has me doing 6 bench press lifts or variants a week, 3 squat lifts or variants, and 3 deadlifts or variants a week. I never train to failure and my strength is shooting up without any new injuries.

Any signs of hypertrophy yet with that sheiko volume?

 

[Docd187123]

Any signs of hypertrophy yet with that sheiko volume?

I'm off sheiko currently. Too much volume for my back at the moment. Doing an RTS style template. Much less volume but much higher intensities. Sheiko will def add mass if you eat accordingly. The volume is perfect for it.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Training to failure and I mean failure isn't good with volume training. They are opposites.

My definition of failure. Simple

Complete inability to move the weight.positive.negative.static

Workout long or workout hard. You cannot do both

 

[dnoyez]

I'm off sheiko currently. Too much volume for my back at the moment. Doing an RTS style template. Much less volume but much higher intensities. Sheiko will def add mass if you eat accordingly. The volume is perfect for it.

I discontinued as well..not lack of weight and bars but simply lack of variety equipment wise as i wanted to follow the templates to a tee and i hate to basterdize a program.

 

[Docd187123]

I discontinued as well..not lack of weight and bars but simply lack of variety equipment wise as i wanted to follow the templates to a tee and i hate to basterdize a program.

I'm confused. Sheiko requires very little equipment.

 

[dnoyez]

Dip bar,dumbells.Like i said i wanted to do it as it was on the template.I have a power rack,chinup bar,700+lbs oly weight,2 oly bars,one ez bar and a couple benches.I know i could had not done the flys and dips on the templates but im weird like that to where i dont want to drop or change things.I do realize those templates were specifically made for an induvidual and were not ment as cookie cutters.

Obviously i train at home..just moved here.Is up in a mountain and gyms are a distance.

I am upgrading as funds permit.

 

[dnoyez]

I am about to run korkes 3x3.

 

[jJjburton]

I feel BEAT RN doing a muscle twice a week. We talked about this on one of our logs lol. The OP humble and I were doing good but now both of us are burnt. I am changing my two a day routine. To this. Monday chest/pushes back/lats. Then on Thursday I will do inner back and flys. So I am not doing all the same things both days. Legs, Wednesday quad, Saturday day hammys/glutes. Arms tuesday day, then Light arms next time with heavy shoulders. This sort of helps with the muscle group twice a week. It also hits your muscles from all angles.

 

[element00]

IMO age has some impact on this. No doubt there are some older guys here who may disagree, but my recovery has slowed as I've gotten older so have had to adjust. Too many injuries trying to train like I'm in my 20s or 30s gave me no choice if I want to stay in this game for many years to come

 

[KillTheGymStayHumble15]

If you're running twice weekly frequency, then you're kind of going to be sacrificing daily volume for weekly volume. Regulate your fatigue, take a few days to deload if necessary.

I'm doing pplpp. I do a heavy day 4-6 reps, sometimes triples. And a hypertrophy day, 10 range. My weekly volume is only a few sets higher than it would be on a five day split per muscle group. Growth is nice, but there is some wear and tear. Skullcrushers have never been a problem, but they're getting dropped to once a week. So on. . .

You don't need to go to total failure every day doing this. Have you read the hst resources? If not, do so, and then apply to what you have going on, even if you don't do the full program. Principles are sound. Load progressively, keep yourself anabolic.

I have been looking into this method (heavy days and then hypertrophy days within the same week) it seems this would reduce the risk of injury. Have you looked at the project mass on bodybuilding.com? And if you don't mind id like to know what your full split would look like?

 

[D-Ballin]

I have been looking into this method (heavy days and then hypertrophy days within the same week) it seems this would reduce the risk of injury. Have you looked at the project mass on bodybuilding.com? And if you don't mind id like to know what your full split would look like?

At a glance, the overview and general training split doesn't look too stupid. I'll dig through it more when I have time. I hate the bb.com wants to break down the pages for ad revenue. Just give me the fucking program. . .

My split looks like:

Push:
Flat bench 3x5, last set amrap on resets.
Ohp 3x5
Incline DB 3x5
CG BP 2x5
Calf raise 2x10
Dips 2x5

Pull: weighted chin, neutral grip, 5x5 (volume on these due to weak point)
DL 3x5
Pendlay row 3x5
UR row (wide grip) 3x5
BB curl 2x6
Shrugs 2x15
Lateral raise 2x8 (added due to weak point)

Legs: squat 5x5
Calf press 2x15 (to fail on both)
Leg extension 3x12
Leg curl 3x12

Push (hypertrophy)
Flat bench 3x10
OHP 3x10
Incline DB 3x10
Skullcrushers 3x8

Pull (hypertrophy)
Wide grip pullup 4x10
DL 3x8 w shrug
DB row 3x10
Ur row 3x10
Alternate curls 2x10
Plate shrugs 2x15
Lateral raise 2x10, fail dropsets down to fives (again, added to address imbalance).

That's about it. Legs are light for me, because I'm built like a fucking centaur as is. Lucky. Also, 3 day frequency with the dl on pull days.

The only lifts I fail on are calf raises and shrugs, and also the lateral raises on hypertrophy days. This is just preference as far as how they best respond right now. Also the amrap set for flat bench during reset phases.

Everything with the exception of the slower moving accessories are linear progression right now. You don't need to go to failure. You need to progressively overload. Reset phases follow greyskull/wendler type layout. Haven't seen one yet with this tren, but it will be coming soon.

Everything tracked and adjusted appropriately every session.

I'm probably missing shit. This came about as a bastardized lp program to address my weaknesses. Working so far, up 15 in 3.5 weeks, and over 100 on total (which sucks, so big whoop. . .). No injuries yet. If you have high strength standards on squats and DL, you might want to rethink the programming. Foreseeing that as a future issue.

 

[Docd187123]

At a glance, the overview and general training split doesn't look too stupid. I'll dig through it more when I have time. I hate the bb.com wants to break down the pages for ad revenue. Just give me the fucking program. . .

My split looks like:

Push:
Flat bench 3x5, last set amrap on resets.
Ohp 3x5
Incline DB 3x5
CG BP 2x5
Calf raise 2x10
Dips 2x5

Pull: weighted chin, neutral grip, 5x5 (volume on these due to weak point)
DL 3x5
Pendlay row 3x5
UR row (wide grip) 3x5
BB curl 2x6
Shrugs 2x15
Lateral raise 2x8 (added due to weak point)

Legs: squat 5x5
Calf press 2x15 (to fail on both)
Leg extension 3x12
Leg curl 3x12

Push (hypertrophy)
Flat bench 3x10
OHP 3x10
Incline DB 3x10
Skullcrushers 3x8

Pull (hypertrophy)
Wide grip pullup 4x10
DL 3x8 w shrug
DB row 3x10
Ur row 3x10
Alternate curls 2x10
Plate shrugs 2x15
Lateral raise 2x10, fail dropsets down to fives (again, added to address imbalance).

That's about it. Legs are light for me, because I'm built like a fucking centaur as is. Lucky. Also, 3 day frequency with the dl on pull days.

The only lifts I fail on are calf raises and shrugs, and also the lateral raises on hypertrophy days. This is just preference as far as how they best respond right now. Also the amrap set for flat bench during reset phases.

Everything with the exception of the slower moving accessories are linear progression right now. You don't need to go to failure. You need to progressively overload. Reset phases follow greyskull/wendler type layout. Haven't seen one yet with this tren, but it will be coming soon.

Everything tracked and adjusted appropriately every session.

I'm probably missing shit. This came about as a bastardized lp program to address my weaknesses. Working so far, up 15 in 3.5 weeks, and over 100 on total (which sucks, so big whoop. . .). No injuries yet. If you have high strength standards on squats and DL, you might want to rethink the programming. Foreseeing that as a future issue.

One thing to try if you are interested:

Bc OHP and bench press work a lot of the same musculature, doing both for strength one day and both for hypertrophy the other takes away from each but press more since it's always coming after benching.

So try experimenting with on your first push day having bench press for strength (6x3, 3x5, etc) then doing press for mass (3-5x8-12reps). Your next push day switch to press for strength (6x3, 3x5, etc) BEFORE bench then bench press for mass (3-5x8-12reps).

 

[D-Ballin]

One thing to try if you are interested:

Bc OHP and bench press work a lot of the same musculature, doing both for strength one day and both for hypertrophy the other takes away from each but press more since it's always coming after benching.

So try experimenting with on your first push day having bench press for strength (6x3, 3x5, etc) then doing press for mass (3-5x8-12reps). Your next push day switch to press for strength (6x3, 3x5, etc) BEFORE bench then bench press for mass (3-5x8-12reps).

I've actually noticed that my OHP dropped a bit running it like this. Progression is still coming along fine, but I know I'm under my max for it.

I do believe this is going to be implemented. Thanks doc.

 

[KillTheGymStayHumble15]

At a glance, the overview and general training split doesn't look too stupid. I'll dig through it more when I have time. I hate the bb.com wants to break down the pages for ad revenue. Just give me the fucking program. . .

My split looks like:

Push:
Flat bench 3x5, last set amrap on resets.
Ohp 3x5
Incline DB 3x5
CG BP 2x5
Calf raise 2x10
Dips 2x5

Pull: weighted chin, neutral grip, 5x5 (volume on these due to weak point)
DL 3x5
Pendlay row 3x5
UR row (wide grip) 3x5
BB curl 2x6
Shrugs 2x15
Lateral raise 2x8 (added due to weak point)

Legs: squat 5x5
Calf press 2x15 (to fail on both)
Leg extension 3x12
Leg curl 3x12

Push (hypertrophy)
Flat bench 3x10
OHP 3x10
Incline DB 3x10
Skullcrushers 3x8

Pull (hypertrophy)
Wide grip pullup 4x10
DL 3x8 w shrug
DB row 3x10
Ur row 3x10
Alternate curls 2x10
Plate shrugs 2x15
Lateral raise 2x10, fail dropsets down to fives (again, added to address imbalance).

That's about it. Legs are light for me, because I'm built like a fucking centaur as is. Lucky. Also, 3 day frequency with the dl on pull days.

The only lifts I fail on are calf raises and shrugs, and also the lateral raises on hypertrophy days. This is just preference as far as how they best respond right now. Also the amrap set for flat bench during reset phases.

Everything with the exception of the slower moving accessories are linear progression right now. You don't need to go to failure. You need to progressively overload. Reset phases follow greyskull/wendler type layout. Haven't seen one yet with this tren, but it will be coming soon.

Everything tracked and adjusted appropriately every session.c

I'm probably missing shit. This came about as a bastardized lp program to address my weaknesses. Working so far, up 15 in 3.5 weeks, and over 100 on total (which sucks, so big whoop. . .). No injuries yet. If you have high strength standards on squats and DL, you might want to rethink the programming. Foreseeing that as a future issue.

Awesome I like this a lot, it looks very similar to what I'm considering switching to. Only difference is that mine will be an 8 day split so I an hit legs twice and still have two rest days for every 6 working days. Thanks for taking the time to post this!

 

[Docd187123]

I've actually noticed that my OHP dropped a bit running it like this. Progression is still coming along fine, but I know I'm under my max for it.

I do believe this is going to be implemented. Thanks doc.

You're welcome. Let us know if it helps bring up your pressing more!