Confused on Clomid

[sixfeetfour]

OK I just got reading thru search results on clomid and PCT and have a few questions. I thought I had all this figured out 10 weeks ago, but wanted to refresh myself and ended up confusing myself in the process. If the info is here and I missed it- I apoligize.

Let's say you do a cycle of 10 wks at 30 mgs d-bol ED (wks 1-4) and 500 mgs test ethanate EW (wks 1-10). The PCT would be 21 days clomid at 300 mgs day 1, 100 mgs days 2-11 and 50mgs days 12-21. I know there are other variations on this, but this seems to be suggested more often than others. Not bringing nolva of hcg into this one.

Here is where the confusion begins. Say this cycle ended last week with 250mg test ethanate injection on Wednesday and another one on Sunday. Now I have read on this board and some others the following: start clomid 3 wks after last inject, 2 weeks after last inject, 10 days after last inject and 6 days after last inject. 2 wks after last inject seems to occur most often. I am wondering if I am having confusion over half life of esther. How can someone make a general statement and suggest when to start PCT and not take into account the dosage of the compound along with the compund itself? Mostly I see PCT based on the esther, but not the amount of the esther. Or do they am I am just overlooking it, becasue there are alot of 500mg/wk cycles out there? Do I understand half life correctly? - If you have 500mgs of test e after 1 wk you have 250 - after 2 wks you have 125 - time to start PCT. Correct? But if you have 1000mgs after 1 wk you have 500 - after 2 weeks you have 250 - after 3 wks you have 125 - time to start PCT - Correct? So for one it would be 2 wks and for the other it would be 3 wks after last inject?

MaxRep gave some insight into this once, but it was in the Classified and it got deleted during cleaning.

I guess the question is with the above cycle (500mgs EW test e) clomid 2 wks after last inject at 300mgs (1) 100mgs (2-11) 50mgs (12-21) = good to go?

 

[01dragonslayer]

WHEN you start your clomid has nothing to do with the dose your cycling and EVERYTHING to do with the ester. Start your PCT clomid 2wks after your last shot of enth at the doses you have outlined.

 

[sixfeetfour]

That's the response MaxRep gave, but he said one other thing that made me think - and I understood it perfectly. Now I can't remember what it was. Something along the line of think of the definition.... What am I not understanding correctly in the third paragraph of my first post? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Carlito]

WHEN you start your clomid has nothing to do with the dose your cycling and EVERYTHING to do with the ester. Start your PCT clomid 2wks after your last shot of enth at the doses you have outlined.

I'd say the same and also add 40mg/day of Nolva first 2 weeks and then 20mg/day the next 2 weeks. Yes you can run nolva 1 week longer than Clomid.

 

[einstein1905]

You're right in thinking that it's also dependent upon dose. Your plasma test levels will be different 2 weeks after your last test E shot if you were taking 1000mgs vs 500mgs. I'm too lazy to do the math right now, but in any event, at 500mg/wk of test E, 2 weeks after your last shot is just about perfect.
It's good you actually think about things like this rather than just accept the assumed dogmas.

 

[sixfeetfour]

Thanks Einstein - I was actually hoping you would offer a reply. I read alot of your posts and your definately know your shit. Much respect bro. This has been on my mind for a week. I don't have any plans of ever exceeding 500-600mgs test a week, but wondered how it might effect PCT if I did.

 

[Deacon]

here is a simple chart to follow;



Steroid.....Time After Administration.....Clomid Length

Anadrol50/Anapolan50.......8-12 hours.....3 weeks
Deca Durobolan................3 weeks........4 weeks
Dianabol.........................4-8 hours.......3 weeks
Equipoise........................17-21 days.....3 weeks
Finajet/Trenbolone............3 days...........3 weeks
Primobolan Depot..............10-14 days.....2 weeks
Sustanon.........................3 weeks........3 weeks
Test Cypionate.................2 weeks........3 weeks
Test Enthenate/Testoviron..2 weeks........3 weeks
Test Propionate.................3 days..........3 weeks
Test Suspension................4-8 hours......2 weeks
Winstrol...........................8-12 hours.....2 weeks


also I disagree with Einstein - dose does not effect start of pct - it is the ester used - always figure your time from the longest ester used - for example test cyp above is 2 weeks before you start clomid and then you run clomid for three weeks - real easy

I can do some more checking but I have never heard anything at all about doses being a factor - also there are more complicated charts out there that deal with blood levels of test before pct - the thing is if you figure the math the above chart will give you the same time periods pretty close.

Good Luck bro

 

[einstein1905]

It's a pretty simple concept. If you're taking 1000mg/wk vs 500mg/wk, you'll have a much higher plasma test level after the same amount of time off with the 1000mg/wk test. The higher plasma test level is still supressive to HPTA and starting clomid (or pct in general) at this point is not going to overcome those lingering high plasma test levels. Those 2 weeks for test E guidelines are for typical doses of around 500mg/wk. It's not really a matter of opinion on this one.

 

[demeurj]

It's a pretty simple concept. If you're taking 1000mg/wk vs 500mg/wk, you'll have a much higher plasma test level after the same amount of time off with the 1000mg/wk test. The higher plasma test level is still supressive to HPTA and starting clomid (or pct in general) at this point is not going to overcome those lingering high plasma test levels. Those 2 weeks for test E guidelines are for typical doses of around 500mg/wk. It's not really a matter of opinion on this one.

Einstein definitely wins this one.

Test A 500mg/injection half-life 6 days vs Test B 1000mg/injection half-life 3 days:

At the end of six days, serum concentrations of test will be similar . . . although the area under the curve (AUC) means the higher dose injection likely will have greater anabolic (and side) effects. PCT will begin at the same time point for each agent but it's clearly a function of the ester (half-life) and the dose. It does NOT matter for newbies b/c doses tend to be mild to moderate . . . which means the primary determinant of PCT interval will be the ester.

 

[einstein1905]

Thank you, Doc. I appreciate the support. I'm glad someone sees things for what they really are. No offense to anyone that disagreed. I know that "two weeks after your last test E shot" seemed to be written in stone, but you have to take into consideration the dose as well. Like the doc said, most of the weekly doses will fall withing the same ballpark range, so 2 weeks is a good guideline.

Einstein definitely wins this one.

Test A 500mg/injection half-life 6 days vs Test B 1000mg/injection half-life 3 days:

At the end of six days, serum concentrations of test will be similar . . . although the area under the curve (AUC) means the higher dose injection likely will have greater anabolic (and side) effects. PCT will begin at the same time point for each agent but it's clearly a function of the ester (half-life) and the dose. It does NOT matter for newbies b/c doses tend to be mild to moderate . . . which means the primary determinant of PCT interval will be the ester.

 

[Deacon]

okay but from the explanations even I feel you are splitting hairs - a few days one way or the other does not effect things one bit - if the argument was in weeks I would then agree that complicated math is what we should all do in pct figuring - but even in your above examples I do not feel the need to get any more complicated than things have to be -

there is always two ways of things men - the clinical analysis -usually correct but overthought out
and the real world way it is done - may not be 100% correct but it gets the job done just fine


so sorry but unless you have a better explanation of why I need to figure doses and blood levels as you state I will stick with my chart.

I await your answer

 

[einstein1905]

The doc gave an example of a single test E shot administration of 2 different doses. Over the course of weeks of 1x vs 2x mg/wk doses, the plasma concentrations will be drastically different. The one shot at 2 different doses was just to demonstrate the difference.