d-bol w/ anavar for bridge?

[Phil Burmese1]

I have been currently off of test for five weeks. I just finished up with my clomid and have been supplementing heavely to keep my lean mass up while dieting. I have been using 30mg e/d of anavar, using 10grams of creatine, 20grams of glutamine, 3 proetin shakes a day, and 25grams of flax seed oil e/d. I am slso taking beast pack multi vitamins and prostemetto prostate formula (a little paraniod)
Anyhow my question is if I were to add 10mg of d-bol a day through my
"off cycle" would that effect my natural test rejuvenation? My biggest problem is my brother just saw me today with a tank top on, which he has not seen me in one since my last test cycle, and he told me I got skinny! It is taking every bit of my willpower not to go back on. I am planning a nice 750 enantate 400 eq, jump starting with 100mg of suspension for 20 days.
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated!

 

[MaxRep]

Wow! That's a long cycle. You realize you started a Test and whatever cycle and proceeded to continue the cycle with Anavar only and are now planning on continuing your original cycle with Test and Eq. There has been no "off cycle". And your natural test/HPTA has never restarted. You realize it has been shown that as little as 2.5mg's of anavar/day can suppress your hpt axis.

MaxRep

********************************************************

1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1997 Feb;46(2):209-16.

Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes.

DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial.

PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo:

Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily

or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures. RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months.

CONCLUSION: 2.5mg Oxandrolone daily transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 9135704

 

[Grizzly]

Interesting.

 

[Phil Burmese1]

Interesting.

wow, I always trust your knowledge M.R., from what I was told it does not cuase suppression, and was adequite for a bridge. Well that kinda sux, I just started taking them sunday, now I gather I should just stay off completely until next cycle. Thank you for letting my know, I always like to take time off, but this time I figured during dieting it would be helpful! also considering I was planning on being "off". I have been off for five weeks and am planning on staying off for a total of 12, I was on for about 12 week.
Thank you very much again, you always point me in the righ direction!

 

[HHH]

The man knows his shit! Thanks for the info
Brother Max! Always a plesure to read.

HHH

 

[joe shmoe]

You realize it has been shown that as little as 2.5mg's of anavar/day can suppress your hpt axis.


hmmm....like grizzly said: "interesting". i didnt know that either. i thought that 20-30mg/ED of anavar wouldnt cause you to shut down. first time i'm hearing this, but you cant argue with MR or his posted studies.

have a nice day

 

[MaxRep]

wow, I always trust your knowledge M.R., from what I was told it does not cuase suppression, and was adequite for a bridge. Well that kinda sux, I just started taking them sunday, now I gather I should just stay off completely until next cycle. Thank you for letting my know, I always like to take time off, but this time I figured during dieting it would be helpful! also considering I was planning on being "off". I have been off for five weeks and am planning on staying off for a total of 12, I was on for about 12 week.
Thank you very much again, you always point me in the righ direction!

Thanks HHH. It's fun kicking it around with good people.

Phil, I really think the bridge concept is invalid. All the talk about certain AAS and certain dosages and only taking it early in the morning all sounds good. However I would need to see some proof of it being valid. Because personally, I don't think it's a logical concept and there is scientific evidence to disprove it.

I'd hate to see someone 5 years from now on permanent HRT because they thought they were going off with these bridges and were really doing year long cycles.

Good luck,
MaxRep

 

[HHH]

Max,,

Well let me ask this Max,,your Opinion and others
as well.
Lets say a guy runs a 10-12 weekier,,the basic's
Deca,,Test,,D-dol. He runs his HCG about half way
and right at the end. Adds Clomid @ 100mg ED
for a week then kicks it down to 50mg for a few
more weeks,,the whole time running Anavar @
10-15mg a day with the Clomid. Now,,,will
that still keep him shut down? Or would something
like this work?

Thanks

HHH

 

[GRANVILLE]

Well let me ask this Max,,your Opinion and others
as well.
Lets say a guy runs a 10-12 weekier,,the basic's
Deca,,Test,,D-dol. He runs his HCG about half way
and right at the end. Adds Clomid @ 100mg ED
for a week then kicks it down to 50mg for a few
more weeks,,the whole time running Anavar @
10-15mg a day with the Clomid. Now,,,will
that still keep him shut down? Or would something
like this work?

Thanks

HHH

It would be like driving with your brakes on, fairly pointless.........I worked in a clinic a few years back that sorted males with low sex drive, most had used a bridge between cycles until their own test production was compromised so far that it wouldn't cut back in, their own igf-1 levels were also low, so low that it would have been considered low for a male twice their age. 90% of them had used var as a bridge.

 

[BigLibby]

Hey MR, Where have you ever found a study done on someone bridging with anavar... they are just not done.... you won't find it published in some journal. I can say from personal experience that the 10mg am d-bol bridge does work, and works well. Have you ever tried the d-bol bridge cycle I laid out? If you missed it I can post it again.

It's worth a try... then you will know for your self...and not reading what somebody put on paper.

Thanks HHH. It's fun kicking it around with good people.

Phil, I really think the bridge concept is invalid. All the talk about certain AAS and certain dosages and only taking it early in the morning all sounds good. However I would need to see some proof of it being valid. Because personally, I don't think it's a logical concept and there is scientific evidence to disprove it.

I'd hate to see someone 5 years from now on permanent HRT because they thought they were going off with these bridges and were really doing year long cycles.

Good luck,
MaxRep

 

[MaxRep]

Hey MR, Where have you ever found a study done on someone bridging with anavar... they are just not done.... you won't find it published in some journal. I can say from personal experience that the 10mg am d-bol bridge does work, and works well. Have you ever tried the d-bol bridge cycle I laid out? If you missed it I can post it again.

It's worth a try... then you will know for your self...and not reading what somebody put on paper.

Big Libby,
I know what you mean about trying things for yourself. I started training back in 1974 and did my first cycle in 1980, which has given me a long time to try a lot of different things. And see a lot of people do a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong.

There are some things where I can pretty well figure out what the outcome will be, without trying them myself. I don't have to actually stick my hand into a fire to know that if I do so, I'll get burned.

I'm wondering if you've read the numerous scientific studies detailing the suppressive effects of low doses of AAS such as anavar. A product commonly used in bridging. To ask where have I ever found a study on bridging is illogical as we all know the scientific community doesn't do these kinds of studies. That's like asking how I can recommend a Test and Eq stack because there are no scientific studies to back up such a recommendation. What the scientific community does do is they do study the effects of steroids and one well documented effect is their suppressive nature, even in low doses. You may want to spend some time researching this fact.

I am curious as to how you know a dbol bridge works well? I hope you're not making that statement based on your subjective feelings. Presumably you had blood work and semen analysis done after your cycle and then again after your bridge?

Let me know.

MaxRep

 

[BigLibby]

Well, you've got a few years me... like 15.

To answer your question, no I did not have blood work done... My last cycle was the first cycle in which I've tried this... I know, no excuse

I must say that kept more gains this last time than any of 6 prior. I was on bridge cycle for 6 six weeks and by the 6th week my nuts had regained size... my libido was up... I hadn't lost any size yet. In the next 2 months "off everything" I lost 4 total pounds any only about 3 reps on working sets, not bad for 2 months off. I know that my test levels would not come back fully, while on the bridge... but I figured that I could bring them back some. I believe I did, I'll know for sure next cycle... keep you posted with blood results.

Peace

 

[NDK]

I have said this many times before. It takes way longer to recover natural test production than most think. Often many months and some cases years. If you doubt it just get the blood work done and prove me wrong. Most base there recovery on observation and not on blood work. I find Var very supressive at only 20 mg a day for 3 weeks. Bridgeing is a myth, you can't fool your system.

 

[Phil Burmese1]

I have said this many times before. It takes way longer to recover natural test production than most think. Often many months and some cases years. If you doubt it just get the blood work done and prove me wrong. Most base there recovery on observation and not on blood work. I find Var very supressive at only 20 mg a day for 3 weeks. Bridgeing is a myth, you can't fool your system.

wow this is crazy, I stopped taking them yesterday, so that would be a total of 4 days at 30mg e/d. I am now wondering did I suppress my test level even further? I am on my off time now and have been for 5 weeks+, and am planning on staying off for a total of 12 weeks. I was on 500mg enantate and 400mg eq every week for 12 weeks. I came of with 50mg of clomid e/d for a total of 20 days. Unfortunatly I dont have hcg but I am trying to obtain it so I could use it before next cycle. Just blurting out extra info.....Any additional info or comments are always more than welcome. And thank you again Max Rep, my "boys" are really appreciative.
Thank you

 

[HHH]

Wow! That's a long cycle. You realize you started a Test and whatever cycle and proceeded to continue the cycle with Anavar only and are now planning on continuing your original cycle with Test and Eq. There has been no "off cycle". And your natural test/HPTA has never restarted. You realize it has been shown that as little as 2.5mg's of anavar/day can suppress your hpt axis.

MaxRep

********************************************************

1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1997 Feb;46(2):209-16.

Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes.

DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial.

PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo:

Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily

or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures. RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months.

CONCLUSION: 2.5mg Oxandrolone daily transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 9135704

Bump this up for others

HHH