I have been seeing quite a few spammy ads lately across social media for "Perfect Amino", which is just an EAA product. They claim only a few grams of their product is the equivalent of 30 grams of protein due to the absorption rate of protein being low. Sounds pretty gimmicky, but was wondering if anyone is taking EAA's and if you've noticed any difference at all.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
EAA's vs. Protein
- Thread starter thatguy
- Start date
Cdave.aol
Banned
I see chicken
I pick up chicken
I put chicken in my mouth
I had protein
I pick up chicken
I put chicken in my mouth
I had protein
According to studies that have been done on protein digestibility, yes, Essential Amino Acids taken in isolation (I.e., not from meat or yogurt or whatever) have a much higher bioavailability. I have seen studies that demonstrate EAAs are much more effective at stimulating muscle protein synthesis. They are just absorbed far too efficiently. I have seen numbers, if I remember correctly, showing 7.5g of EAAs is equivalent to 15g of whey (the next-most efficiently absorbed and utilized protein). So yeah. They taste like shit, I find it easiest to just down them like a shot and then chase it with some food that actually tastes good,
I have never been able to find an actual absorption rate published for EAAs, like for example whey protein is absorbed at a rate of 10 grams per hour. Absorption is often the rate limiting factor in protein intake/utilization. For example, if you eat 60 grams of whey protein, which absorbs at 10g/hour, and the transit time for the food in the duodenum/proximal jejunum (the parts of your small intestine that absorb protein) is only 4 hours, then you are only able to absorb 40 grams out of the 60. The rest will not be absorbed and you will poop it out. Things like chicken, steak, fish, eggs, soy, etc., all have different absorption rates, some faster/some slower.
Theoretically, if you could slow down digestion so the food spends more time in your small intestines, then you could increase absorb more. I believe that adding complex foods to your diet can help slow digestion to improve nutrient absorption. Option a: drink whey protein mixed with milk. Option b: drink whey protein mixed with milk, then also eat a piece of chicken, an apple, and some vegetables, all that fiber will slow down intestinal transit time, allowing you to absorb more of the goodies.
In general, supplements can be great, but you are best off getting your protein from whole foods. I love adding whey protein isolate to things, but it is not a substitute for chicken or salmon or tilapia!
Edit: also, I do take EAAs. Not regularly though. I do take whey protein regularly (every day). Sometimes I will down 10-15g of EAAs before or after a workout just to ensure I have what I need floating around my bloodstream. If I take them after a workout then I also always eat something else with them too. They are just the "kick starter" for post workout protein intake.
I have never been able to find an actual absorption rate published for EAAs, like for example whey protein is absorbed at a rate of 10 grams per hour. Absorption is often the rate limiting factor in protein intake/utilization. For example, if you eat 60 grams of whey protein, which absorbs at 10g/hour, and the transit time for the food in the duodenum/proximal jejunum (the parts of your small intestine that absorb protein) is only 4 hours, then you are only able to absorb 40 grams out of the 60. The rest will not be absorbed and you will poop it out. Things like chicken, steak, fish, eggs, soy, etc., all have different absorption rates, some faster/some slower.
Theoretically, if you could slow down digestion so the food spends more time in your small intestines, then you could increase absorb more. I believe that adding complex foods to your diet can help slow digestion to improve nutrient absorption. Option a: drink whey protein mixed with milk. Option b: drink whey protein mixed with milk, then also eat a piece of chicken, an apple, and some vegetables, all that fiber will slow down intestinal transit time, allowing you to absorb more of the goodies.
In general, supplements can be great, but you are best off getting your protein from whole foods. I love adding whey protein isolate to things, but it is not a substitute for chicken or salmon or tilapia!
Edit: also, I do take EAAs. Not regularly though. I do take whey protein regularly (every day). Sometimes I will down 10-15g of EAAs before or after a workout just to ensure I have what I need floating around my bloodstream. If I take them after a workout then I also always eat something else with them too. They are just the "kick starter" for post workout protein intake.
If we are only able to absorb 10g protein per hour, and we eat 1g of protein per pound of body weight...the amount that is going to waste is pretty high. How much protein do we actually need? I've never tried EAA's and I haven't looked into them, aside from the little spam ads here and there. But they were touted as 98 or 99% absorption rate. Whether that's true or not, I do not know.
Well that is why we break down our food intake into multiple smaller meals. You are better off eating 7 meals with 40g of protein each than 1 meal with 280g of protein in it, or 3 with 93 grams each, etc.
There's a couple benefits to EAAs, but one of the primary ones is that, if the EAAs blended to the proper ratios, you are consuming 100% absorbable protein, already broken down into the EAAs. This means a couple things: your body doesn't have to do the work to digest and break down the protein into EAAs, which means it can start absorbing the amino acids faster and more efficiently; the peak MPS levels for EAAs is quite a bit higher than other forms of protein--whey is the next closest, but still has slightly slower curve and not as high of a peak.
For now, here's all I have to say on the topic:
- chew the fuck out of your food. Digestion starts in the mouth, not the stomach. The best target to aim for is to have all your food wind up the same consistency by the time you swallow it--the consistency of a well-blended smoothie. So chew the fuck out of your steak until it is smoothie in your mouth. Chew your smoothie to make sure there's no chunks in it. This greatly helps you break down the food to absorb nutrients faster and better.
- Split your protein intake into as many meals as reasonably possible, but you probably want at least 2 hours between meals. I personally believe 3 hours between meals is ideal.
- While there is a supposed limit on the amount of protein we can absorb per hour for various foods, there have been several studies where the subjects ingested 3-4 grams/pound of body weight and apparently saw added benefit. We don't have anything explaining the discrepancy there. Theoretically, if they are consuming more than they can absorb, there really shouldn't be any benefit, right? Maybe this is because some amount of AA absorption does occur in the large intestine and we just don't know it,, maybe it is something with the thermic effect of food, maybe it is gut microbiome related (totally guessing at this point), or some other combination or reasons. It's impossible to say with the current data. All we know is that, despite the observed absorption limitations, going higher does still seem to provide some additional benefit, granted that you are lifting and taking care of your body properly.
- I personally think EAAs are a powerful tool. Use them as it makes sense. In general, I use whey protein isolate much more and prefer it. As I said, I usually would just use EAAs pre or post workout, or perhaps first thing in the morning before I want to eat breakfast, but want that MPS increase and protein intake. So I might eat something like 15g of EAA and 25 g of whey.
FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
New Member
Why in the hell you would consume whey knowing that absorption shit?
i had stomach issues months ago and avoided them at all… now that i wanna believe what you @MFAAS are saying i m done double with fuckin stupid pro powders… i was just lazy and disorganized…now i cook 6 220g lean juicy chicken burgers the night before and i m fuckin done… i eat a burger in one minute, they taste wonderful because of the stuff i put into even microwaved 24h later…. Fuck You Protein Powders
i had stomach issues months ago and avoided them at all… now that i wanna believe what you @MFAAS are saying i m done double with fuckin stupid pro powders… i was just lazy and disorganized…now i cook 6 220g lean juicy chicken burgers the night before and i m fuckin done… i eat a burger in one minute, they taste wonderful because of the stuff i put into even microwaved 24h later…. Fuck You Protein Powders
Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whey is actually one of the most efficiently absorbed proteins. If you look at studies like this one, which as far as I am aware is the primary source cited that has compared a multitude of different protein absorption rates at once. Scroll down to page 8 (page 136 if you're looking at the top left numbers on the pages) and look at table 2 (or do a ctrl+F for "Table 2".
The do say the absorption rates stated are estimates, but are sufficient approximates. They mention the lack of direct data pertaining specifically to amino acid absorption in the units of grams per hour per kg of body weight.
Note: that study also has some interesting stuff about different protein types and their effect on insulin and other hormone responses. It was found that beef is by far the
Here is the table. A few points:
- Data is sorted from slowest to fastest absorption. You can see whey protein is the fastest.
- Theoretically, or at least AFAIK it hasn't been proven, faster absorption means you can ingest more and still make use of it, versus ingesting more and having it pass through the small intestines untouched.
- There is still the question as to whether the large intestines plays any role in amino acid/protein absorption, because it does contain the transporters necessary, so it very well could we just haven't had the right study to prove it yet.
- Absorption rate is not the only factor at play here. Take a good long read of this wikipedia article on Protein Quality. There are many other factors at play, such as: PDCAAS aka Protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score and DIAAS aka Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score.
- PDCAAS is the current ranking standard by the Food and Agriculture Organization since 1993, however DIAAS was proposed as a replacement in 2013, if doesn't appear that tas much kee0
- Usually casien, whey, egg, and (surpisingly, soy) are rated a 1.0 in the PDCAAS (the highest score that can be given). Chicken has a score of 0.95, beef is 0.92, black beans are 0.75, and crickets are 0.687.
My first thought when seeing this is, okay that's great, so how do I slow down my digestion? I want stuff to sit in my small intestines longer so more can absorb. One easy thing to do is just acquire a large opioid or benzodiazepine habit! That will significantly slow down gastric motility. But be care because you will end up a homeless addict. Fly too close to the sun and all that or something...
There are some who asset that the faster protein is absorbed, the more ends up being oxidized rather than actually utilized.
As I said earlier, there are several things we can do to try to help our bodies make the most of our protein intake:
- Chew the fuck out of our food! Chewing mechanically breaks down the food (again, preferably chew until it is a smoothie like consistency). It also releases digestive enzymes into your saliva to help with digestion. The last thing we want is a 1 cubic inch chunk of steak sitting in the stomach.
- Eat fibrous foods with your protein. This will help to slow down digestion. A smoothie moves through your intestines faster than
- Mix different types of protein and time them appropriately. Often times for me, post workout I always down 15g of EAAs or 25g of whey to get MPS started and give my body some fast-acting fuel to build muscle. Then comes the chicken or salmon or turkey sardines or eggs--whatever I am eating at that time (I really don't eat beef for environmental reasons).
So yeah, absorption rate isn't the full picture and we know it because there's been studies where people have gone way over the theoretical limit for their protein intake-to-utilization amount and still saw additional benefits to body composition. So while we have a ton of research, we don't know it all and there's still much to learn.
Regardless, I feel protein absorption is a good thing to take into consideration. Don't go downing 80g of egg protein in a sitting, you will just oxidize most of it and poop it out.
That's really all I can crank out right now. There's definitely more I could add but I am done writing, but hopefully this helps! All I can say is this: Whey protein is good shit. It is definitely worth consuming along with other proteins like chicken, eggs, fish, and EAAs
Edit: @FR0Z3N_B0MB34 one last thing to note for you. The anabolic response to a meal is NOT limited by max stimulation of muscle protein synthesis--there are other factor at play as well. There are other hormones and bodily processes at play here, but I can't really say what they are or anything off the top of my head--I don't even think the research really knows THAT level of detail.
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FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
New Member
Fine @MFAAS , my ex coach a nice ifbb pro based in dubai told me to use some whey but he didnt use them because he preferred whole food, and so i quitted after bloating and farting like a crazy… its one week that i m eating 6 220g chicken lean burgers ED or some sashimi alternately and: no more farts, no more digestion shit, and no shit shit, i mean, i m shitting LOT less… yo carbs have been reduced, but i could tell ya that i shitted lot of indigested pro.. because of the mega farts and because I tasted my shit and the taste was the same of the fuckin wheys.. i even made a mix eggwhite powder + meatpowder (ultra shitty) and whey… <~~ didn’t enjoy…
so, i dont know but i think that i dont think you could beat THIS @MFAAS :
so, i dont know but i think that i dont think you could beat THIS @MFAAS :
FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
New Member
Proudly a member of #nowheymovement , WHEY: WE SAY NO WAY
Typical no whey users: (some better respond than others to the no whey movement)
Typical no whey users: (some better respond than others to the no whey movement)
As far as flavor goes, nothing beats sashimi/sushi. As far as protein utilization goes though I suspect it would suspect it is lower because your body has to perform extra digestion on the raw protein before it can absorb it. You can see in that tabke raw egg protein is signifcantly less absorb-able than cooked egg protein. That said, I FUCKING LOVE sushi and sashimi. I can eat a fucking boat by myself lol. It is just too goddamn good.
I definitely used to get farts from whey, really fucking badm stomach pain too. The MyProtein whey protein isolate doesn't cause me any issues. I can consume 3 scoops in a day and still be fine somehow. Maybe it was the brands you were using? Who knows
Roco Bama
Member
I never understand this part where casein has an absorption rate of 3.5g/hr but milk protein is at 6.1g/hr. Casein and milk protein are the same thing. It's a slow digesting protein that forms clots in the stomach.Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whey is actually one of the most efficiently absorbed proteins. If you look at studies like this one, which as far as I am aware is the primary source cited that has compared a multitude of different protein absorption rates at once. Scroll down to page 8 (page 136 if you're looking at the top left numbers on the pages) and look at table 2 (or do a ctrl+F for "Table 2".
The do say the absorption rates stated are estimates, but are sufficient approximates. They mention the lack of direct data pertaining specifically to amino acid absorption in the units of grams per hour per kg of body weight.
Note: that study also has some interesting stuff about different protein types and their effect on insulin and other hormone responses. It was found that beef is by far the
Here is the table. A few points:
- Data is sorted from slowest to fastest absorption. You can see whey protein is the fastest.
- Theoretically, or at least AFAIK it hasn't been proven, faster absorption means you can ingest more and still make use of it, versus ingesting more and having it pass through the small intestines untouched.
- There is still the question as to whether the large intestines plays any role in amino acid/protein absorption, because it does contain the transporters necessary, so it very well could we just haven't had the right study to prove it yet.
- Absorption rate is not the only factor at play here. Take a good long read of this wikipedia article on Protein Quality. There are many other factors at play, such as: PDCAAS aka Protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score and DIAAS aka Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score.
- PDCAAS is the current ranking standard by the Food and Agriculture Organization since 1993, however DIAAS was proposed as a replacement in 2013, if doesn't appear that tas much kee0
- Usually casien, whey, egg, and (surpisingly, soy) are rated a 1.0 in the PDCAAS (the highest score that can be given). Chicken has a score of 0.95, beef is 0.92, black beans are 0.75, and crickets are 0.687.
View attachment 150577
My first thought when seeing this is, okay that's great, so how do I slow down my digestion? I want stuff to sit in my small intestines longer so more can absorb. One easy thing to do is just acquire a large opioid or benzodiazepine habit! That will significantly slow down gastric motility. But be care because you will end up a homeless addict. Fly too close to the sun and all that or something...
There are some who asset that the faster protein is absorbed, the more ends up being oxidized rather than actually utilized.
As I said earlier, there are several things we can do to try to help our bodies make the most of our protein intake:
- Chew the fuck out of our food! Chewing mechanically breaks down the food (again, preferably chew until it is a smoothie like consistency). It also releases digestive enzymes into your saliva to help with digestion. The last thing we want is a 1 cubic inch chunk of steak sitting in the stomach.
- Eat fibrous foods with your protein. This will help to slow down digestion. A smoothie moves through your intestines faster than
- Mix different types of protein and time them appropriately. Often times for me, post workout I always down 15g of EAAs or 25g of whey to get MPS started and give my body some fast-acting fuel to build muscle. Then comes the chicken or salmon or turkey sardines or eggs--whatever I am eating at that time (I really don't eat beef for environmental reasons).
So yeah, absorption rate isn't the full picture and we know it because there's been studies where people have gone way over the theoretical limit for their protein intake-to-utilization amount and still saw additional benefits to body composition. So while we have a ton of research, we don't know it all and there's still much to learn.
Regardless, I feel protein absorption is a good thing to take into consideration. Don't go downing 80g of egg protein in a sitting, you will just oxidize most of it and poop it out.
That's really all I can crank out right now. There's definitely more I could add but I am done writing, but hopefully this helps! All I can say is this: Whey protein is good shit. It is definitely worth consuming along with other proteins like chicken, eggs, fish, and EAAs
Edit: @FR0Z3N_B0MB34 one last thing to note for you. The anabolic response to a meal is NOT limited by max stimulation of muscle protein synthesis--there are other factor at play as well. There are other hormones and bodily processes at play here, but I can't really say what they are or anything off the top of my head--I don't even think the research really knows THAT level of detail.
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Milk protein contains both casein and whey, so the jump in absorption is likely due to the whey content of the milk
