Enclomiphene Instead of Test Base for Oral-Only Cycle

[NortLorbe]

Recently on FB I've been getting served lots of ads for various "TRT alternative" treatments (like the Maximus King Protocol). It turns out these are all just enclomiphene administered daily, and they're claiming to more than double a subject's natural Testosterone levels. Seems reasonable, since we use enclomiphene for PCT and there's lots of clinical data to suggest that it functions very well in this capacity.

This got me thinking that if enclo is now being used in lieu of test injections for TRT, does this now open the door to oral-only cycles being possible? Of course an actual test base will ALWAYS be superior, but I'm wondering if 6 weeks of var with enclo for 6-8 weeks could actually be an effective and reasonably safe (albeit wildly expensive) beginner cycle for those afraid to pin.

 

[AbstractMind]

Recently on FB I've been getting served lots of ads for various "TRT alternative" treatments (like the Maximus King Protocol). It turns out these are all just enclomiphene administered daily, and they're claiming to more than double a subject's natural Testosterone levels. Seems reasonable, since we use enclomiphene for PCT and there's lots of clinical data to suggest that it functions very well in this capacity.

This got me thinking that if enclo is now being used in lieu of test injections for TRT, does this now open the door to oral-only cycles being possible? Of course an actual test base will ALWAYS be superior, but I'm wondering if 6 weeks of var with enclo for 6-8 weeks could actually be an effective and reasonably safe (albeit wildly expensive) beginner cycle for those afraid to pin.

Why do people gotta do wierd shit lol.

 

[NortLorbe]

Why do people gotta do wierd shit lol.

Lol man idk, but every day I see a dozen noobs ask about oral-only cycles. Eventually science will figure out a way to make that happen, I was just curious if this would make sense or if it's just as stupid as all the other oral cycles.

 

[shartking]

Hey guys, should I go with a time tested method, or jump on this complete nonsense idea that has little chance of success?

 

[Nicknewguy]

Sadly, this won’t work. These serm and AI monotherapy techniques work by stimulating LH and FSH which signals to the testes to produce testosterone. Exogenous hormones of any kind “inhibit gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) production which in turn inhibits luteinizing hormone (LH) production”. So, they will shut down your ability to naturally produce testosterone.

 

[NortLorbe]

Sadly, this won’t work. These serm and AI monotherapy techniques work by stimulating LH and FSH which signals to the testes to produce testosterone. Exogenous hormones of any kind “inhibit gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) production which in turn inhibits luteinizing hormone (LH) production”. So, they will shut down your ability to naturally produce testosterone.

Ahh, so enclo is only effective after the AAS have fully left your body. I guess that makes sense, since that's the standard way to structure a cycle, just hadn't thought about why. Thanks!

 

[Tap in]

Enclomifene will increase test production but it won’t get you anywhere near the levels that even just 200mg/week on injectable test will. Now the Enclomifene + var would be interesting you would have high normal test plus and additional androgen. Wouldn’t be a great cycle but should do something.

 

[Inspired]

Recently on FB I've been getting served lots of ads for various "TRT alternative" treatments (like the Maximus King Protocol). It turns out these are all just enclomiphene administered daily, and they're claiming to more than double a subject's natural Testosterone levels. Seems reasonable, since we use enclomiphene for PCT and there's lots of clinical data to suggest that it functions very well in this capacity.

This got me thinking that if enclo is now being used in lieu of test injections for TRT, does this now open the door to oral-only cycles being possible? Of course an actual test base will ALWAYS be superior, but I'm wondering if 6 weeks of var with enclo for 6-8 weeks could actually be an effective and reasonably safe (albeit wildly expensive) beginner cycle for those afraid to pin.

I've never been sold with the idea that a test base is required. Everyone parrots that as group think propaganda. But is a test base really required? No. Is a test base good to use because it will help you keep your gains for longer, and is it healthier for you because you can consume less orals overall? Yes.

I think anavar only cycles work, and I think that Enclomiphene (or Tamoxifen) will keep you from being too shutdown. Anavar doesn't shut you down on its own anyway.

I did anavar only. I also used proviron, small doses of arimidex (probably not needed, but I was experimenting), and either raloxifene or Tamoxifen every day. I had great results. I used clomid and Tamoxifen for my PCT.

I felt good. I didn't feel bad. Sex drive was reduced.

I would try it. It's a good way to get your feet wet. It's low commitment first step into this.

 

[OmL]

I find it odd that Mike Isratel said that an oral only cycle is ok. He has a video covering it.

But anyway, steroid cycle information on Facebook?

 

[fooba]

"test base" is a stupid term used by people who use sarms(and tik tok influencer wannabes). majority of the time its stupid shit like "can i use this prohormone as a test base". when the reality is that theyre scared of pinning because mommy and daddy will find their needles. ive never seen it used by anyone who uses real gear

 

[Jin23]

Recently on FB I've been getting served lots of ads for various "TRT alternative" treatments (like the Maximus King Protocol). It turns out these are all just enclomiphene administered daily, and they're claiming to more than double a subject's natural Testosterone levels. Seems reasonable, since we use enclomiphene for PCT and there's lots of clinical data to suggest that it functions very well in this capacity.

This got me thinking that if enclo is now being used in lieu of test injections for TRT, does this now open the door to oral-only cycles being possible? Of course an actual test base will ALWAYS be superior, but I'm wondering if 6 weeks of var with enclo for 6-8 weeks could actually be an effective and reasonably safe (albeit wildly expensive) beginner cycle for those afraid to pin.

Yes, it does work but it's nowhere near as good as actual test, in regards to how high your T levels will be.

SERMs block the negative feedback from estrogen on the pituitary which leads to higher LH output, BUT, androgens in of them self's have a negative feedback loop at hypothalamus and you can't block that with a serm. Also, androgens by them self's have direct actions on the testies. This is hard to quantify as I don't know of any studies dealing directly with this but have you ever seen somebody on ostarine at their 4th week of the cycle having normal LH but zero total testosterone? I also experienced this on ostarine at 25mg.

Yes, enlcomiphene helps but only marginally. Depends also on which oral is being used. However, serms are really harsh on the gi and liver, I can't stand them (have gilbert's) and they also have huge system actions seeing how they act on the whole body ...

 

[hallomonde]

Why do people gotta do wierd shit lol.

Everyone wants to reinvent the wheel and create their special snowflake protocols in order to make money.

 

[Metribolone]

Pinning yourself the first time is a little scary but it doesn’t even hurt if done right. Boop it’s done.

 

[NortLorbe]

Lol y'all I guess I should clarify, I've done a cycle. I've 100% injected, I'm not asking about this because I'm scared of needles, I was just curious if this was a feasible option, that's all.

 

[Infidel141]

Some dipshit on Reddit just posted about this doing 6 weeks var, looked alright but stupid af.

 

[Titan18]

I've never been sold with the idea that a test base is required. Everyone parrots that as group think propaganda. But is a test base really required? No. Is a test base good to use because it will help you keep your gains for longer, and is it healthier for you because you can consume less orals overall? Yes.

I think anavar only cycles work, and I think that Enclomiphene (or Tamoxifen) will keep you from being too shutdown. Anavar doesn't shut you down on its own anyway.

I did anavar only. I also used proviron, small doses of arimidex (probably not needed, but I was experimenting), and either raloxifene or Tamoxifen every day. I had great results. I used clomid and Tamoxifen for my PCT.

I felt good. I didn't feel bad. Sex drive was reduced.

I would try it. It's a good way to get your feet wet. It's low commitment first step into this.

The Test base is required because your natural production will shut off with any AAS.

 

[phenominal34]

The Test base is required because your natural production will shut off with any AAS.

Not what @Inspired said above ….

 

[Inspired]

The Test base is required because your natural production will shut off with any AAS.

I've done oral only cycles and my test production has never shut down. Maybe I had some minor suppression, and then I rebounded back to normal levels relatively quickly. This idea that has become nearly a religious doctrine, that Testosterone is required as a base, is an overrated meme.

You will probably get better results using Testosterone as base, but you can have successful oral only cycles or even non Testosterone injectable only cycles, and it will be fine. And I suspect that for many people, they'd be better off leaving Testosterone alone.

 

[UncleBuns]

I've tried it. Got mediocre results and I don't think it was worth it and I would not do it again. I think most of the online reports about SERM + oral you see are 50% or more bullshit. Now, I do feel differently about HCG and oral cycles. HCG bypasses the GNRH problem. I tried this, felt good, and got results. Not dramatic results, but it achieved the goal I was after. I don't think HCG + oral has much use for bodybuilders or powerlifters. But for mostly naturals looking for a boost or athletes etc. I do think that it can be a very useful tool.

 

[Titan18]

I've done oral only cycles and my test production has never shut down. Maybe I had some minor suppression, and then I rebounded back to normal levels relatively quickly. This idea that has become nearly a religious doctrine, that Testosterone is required as a base, is an overrated meme.

You will probably get better results using Testosterone as base, but you can have successful oral only cycles or even non Testosterone injectable only cycles, and it will be fine. And I suspect that for many people, they'd be better off leaving Testosterone alone.

I guess it depends on your goals.