MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Endurance Athlete

runner-runner

runner-runner

New Member
Just throwing in a quick intro after lurking for some time now. Short summary I lifted heavy and hard for 6ish years. I ballooned up to 250 muscular yet not lean pounds but was mentally fatigued, and my frame simply struggled to hold that much weight. I had got back to doing more cardio to drop some weight, which led to some jogging, and then some running. I got down to a fit 210lbs, but was having tendinitis issues (still a lot of weight for my frame). So I bought a road bike and thought I would cross train some, but I fell in love with cycling. No real weights and 3 years later I was a lean 165lb serious cyclist (12-15hrs a week). Did a few winny cycles with nice results during this time.

Skip ahead and due to a 900 mile move to an urban area not conducive to cycling I got back to running. So I have been back running and racing for over a year, and I am in the best shape of my life. However, I am just not recovering from runs like I would expect. Going to get blood work done today (thanks to privatemd I found on meso-rx). Being an endurance athlete presents a different set of issues as compared to most on this board, but I love chemical enhancement.

I am in a position where time is not an issue for me to run & recover, but this will change in about 14 months. So while I have the ability, I want to see how far I can push myself. So pending the results of my lab work I will decide how to proceed.

Routine and stats:
Run 5-6 times a week-total mileage is usually around 40 which is low for me
Easy upper body/core workout twice a week
Age: around 30
Weight: around 155lbs
Hematocrit: 48.5 – this is one reason I have been disappointed with my lackluster running performances.
 
Hey chaser4life,
Thanks for the feedback..I am patiently awaiting my labs, but for sure plan on running test. I will try to find a balance where I am not putting on too much weight, but recovering faster.

HGH has always intrigued me, but I do not have any comparative reference of what doses a runner/cyclist might use. Any recommendations on iu's and/or number of days per week? I really believe that with HGH there is still a lot of guess work going on even with athletes at high levels (or they are doing what they can afford).
 
i have been an endurance athlete throughout my life.

i concur with Chaser. but would stress HGH and Primo over the others...even low dose test. These are going to help your recovery times.

Watch your Crit levels.! when adding AAS. EQ and winni exacerbate those for me.
 
Welcome to MESO-Rx!

I've become very interested in "chemical enhancement" for endurance athletes over the past few years. While AAS discussion is very open on bodybuilding forums, it's not so much on cycling forums. So information is harder to come by.

AAS for endurance sports become purely recovery drugs. So optimal dosages/drugs/combination differ from the hypertrophy-oriented approach by bodybuilders. The good news is that the required dosages, and consequently the risks, are much lower.

There are a lot of other PEDs in the cycling milieu that interest me as well. I'm still learning :)
 
beezil said:
Watch your Crit levels.! when adding AAS. EQ and winni exacerbate those for me.
Click to expand...
Endurance training seems to be an excellent way to keep steroid-induced erythropoiesis in check. I'm not sure what volume of training is required to keep hematocrit below 50%. But in some people I think endurance training alone, without therapeutic phlebotomies, can do the job.

This is especially true since most people who focus on endurance training/events tend to use lower dosages of AAS. That's why professional endurance athletes using low-dose testosterone still resort to EPO and blood doping - the excessive training destroys RBC faster than AAS can stimulate.

But I wonder if endurance athletes could increase the testosterone dosage slightly or add another AAS (without worrying about failing drug tests) and maintain 50% HCT without use of EPO?
 
hanks for the feedback

Well I got my blood work back and was really surprised to have my test level come back at 791. So I guess I will look into primo and hgh as suggested. Any suggestions on hgh doses? Would 4-5 ius daily x5 days a week be good (outside of being expensive) or overkill?

And @Millard coming from a high level cycling background it is strange how taboo so many pro 1/2 cyclist treat the discussion of PEDs. So it is hard to get information from the cycling community (granted I can see why). I have a pair of Floyd Lanids autographed Phonak bib shorts that he raced in, obviously there is no monetary value in these, but still a prized possession that a lot of people think are trash.
 
runner-runner said:
hanks for the feedback

Well I got my blood work back and was really surprised to have my test level come back at 791. So I guess I will look into primo and hgh as suggested. Any suggestions on hgh doses? Would 4-5 ius daily x5 days a week be good (outside of being expensive) or overkill?

And @Millard Baker coming from a high level cycling background it is strange how taboo so many pro 1/2 cyclist treat the discussion of PEDs. So it is hard to get information from the cycling community (granted I can see why). I have a pair of Floyd Lanids autographed Phonak bib shorts that he raced in, obviously there is no monetary value in these, but still a prized possession that a lot of people think are trash.
Click to expand...

For what you are trying to do.. i wouldn't reccommend dosages over 2iu.
i have been on a 2iu 5on-2off protocol for over a year...

my knees and hips have seen a steady improvement. Thats after wearing them out from long runs / marches and HALO in the service...

if you go the route of primo (low dose)... i would definitely add a small amount of Test at a low TRT level. Your HPTA will experience shut down. When i was younger i just ran the primo... with no ill effects... knowing what i know now... i wold have added the test.

remember... the dosages you will get on most forums will be body builder levels... you need to decrease that level. You don't want to add to much weight and mass if anything at all.. you are using it for recovery.

be mindful... at your natty level once you start experimenting with your endo, hormones, and PED's... it may not go back to that level natural. Its a big step that should be researched and calculated.

lastly... i can't remember if you were worried about WADA... if you are competing at a higher level... it WILL come back on you.

after the armstrong debacle...i have seen a huge swing... from the competitors to shun other competitors or black ball them to a degree for use of PED's. thats probably why things are so hush hush these days. not too mention huge loss of sponsorship dollars to the races themselves because of the black cloud of PED's over the sport in general.
 
@beezil thanks for the information-hgh insights are greatly appreciated

No concerns for drug testing...I am purely running now, no time on the bike, but I was not at a high enough level to be on a domestic elite team and that is the level where testing really starts.

I also just realized that I completely (non intentionally) omitted some huge details that would have been helpful - during my lifting days I cycled just about all the big AAS (test e/p, anavar, tren, etc...) for 3-4 years. Then for two cycling seasons I ran Winny only. This is why I was surprised to see my Test level at 791, I figured I had done a little damage to my HPTA.

My old workout partner has competed at the NPC nationals so I have got to see some of the more extreme measures (insulin, lasix). However everything I have done or saw in the past was geared towards BB, so trying to get info from those that have endurance experience.

Thanks for the continued advice
 
so you have an extensive background in the uses of anabolics!
being an endurance athlete your test level is real high!

basically your lifestyle sounds like mine... with an occasional Toughmudder or Warrior dash in there as well.

i average 40-50 miles a week in shoes... swim 5-10 miles and try to get 100miles on the fluid trainer... and still move iron.

No competitive racing any more for me.

you can always hit me up and i can tell you what has worked for me... outside of HGH.

good to have another body in motion on the forum!
 
runner-runner said:
And @Millard coming from a high level cycling background it is strange how taboo so many pro 1/2 cyclist treat the discussion of PEDs. So it is hard to get information from the cycling community (granted I can see why). I have a pair of Floyd Lanids autographed Phonak bib shorts that he raced in, obviously there is no monetary value in these, but still a prized possession that a lot of people think are trash.
Click to expand...
Landis' stage 17 at 2006 TdF was one of the most amazing performances ever. I went through his hometown after he won and lost and bought a Floyd Fairness Fund cap. I'm not sure how I feel about him now. Of course, it has nothing to do with his doping.
 
Sorry, "crit" I understand.

It's every acronym/abbreviation after that which I would appreciate a definition for.
 
Another question (apologies for all the seasoned users this may offend) but would there be benefit for myself (also a runner) to use Anavar? Was thinking in 25mg (half a tablet) doses - cycle length and duration unknown.

In combo maybe even with HGH?
 
Tmd sorry for the long time in replying just have not been checking the introduction section.

I have no experience with anavar, but everyone I know says its a no go for running and cycling. People seem to experience serious "pumps" and cramping. A good pump is great for a bodybuilder, but not something you want if your going out for a ten mile run.

Hgh might be the best...Just know your results are going to be slow. The best I have heard hgh described is it is like filling up a bucket with drips of water. If you constantly look at it, it seems like there is no progress. If you stand back in 6-12 months you will see the bucket is almost full (sorry whoever I stole that from I do not remember where I saw it).
 
Millard said:
Welcome to MESO-Rx!

I've become very interested in "chemical enhancement" for endurance athletes over the past few years. While AAS discussion is very open on bodybuilding forums, it's not so much on cycling forums. So information is harder to come by.

AAS for endurance sports become purely recovery drugs. So optimal dosages/drugs/combination differ from the hypertrophy-oriented approach by bodybuilders. The good news is that the required dosages, and consequently the risks, are much lower.

There are a lot of other PEDs in the cycling milieu that interest me as well. I'm still learning :)
Click to expand...

@Millard have you come across a protocol/set of principals that endurance athletes can follow to enhance performance? Or, what have you learned since you wrote this?

I haven't learned much myself, but I also haven't spent a lot of time on research yet.
  • EPO is still best to use at 2000iu EOD or E3D prior to/during competition for O2 uptake,
  • Anavar is a preferred oral for ligament/tendon health,
  • Winstrol, despite it's history in athletics, is not preferred for the reason anavar is,
  • Low dose Test 150mg-200mg/week can generally be a good starting point.
 
$BlackBeard said:
@Millard have you come across a protocol/set of principals that endurance athletes can follow to enhance performance? Or, what have you learned since you wrote this?

I haven't learned much myself, but I also haven't spent a lot of time on research yet.
  • EPO is still best to use at 2000iu EOD or E3D prior to/during competition for O2 uptake,
  • Anavar is a preferred oral for ligament/tendon health,
  • Winstrol, despite it's history in athletics, is not preferred for the reason anavar is,
  • Low dose Test 150mg-200mg/week can generally be a good starting point.
Click to expand...
To enhance performance and not strictly recovery?
 
@Tiredandhot Good question. I guess if I had to answer I would say both. Enhanced performance means enhanced recovery. When I have more time, I'll try and assemble what I can find here about endurance into a single thread.
 
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