Feedback on haul

[frenske]

I'm looking to buy up some lab supplies for my existing (and ever growing) peptide addiction. I'm about to place a large order to be set for a while and wanted to get this forum's opinion

- Excel 3ml Syringe
- Nipro Sterile Hypodermic Needles 18G
- Excel 1ml 31g Insulin syringes
- Only have experience with BD insulin syringes. Should I stick with the BD or is there a better brand?
- Sterile Gloves
- BD Nokor Admix Non-Coring Needles
- 0.2um PES filter 13mm diameter (no prefilter)
- Ultra Spec Sterile 2ml (13mm neck) Clear Sealed Glass Vials
- BAC Water

I plan to reconstitute peptides using the 3ml syringe with the BD Nokor Admix needle. Then draw the peptide into the syringe, swap out the syringe and attach the 18G needle, then I will store the syringe with the entire peptide to do per-dose filtration by backfiling the insulin syringe.

Thought I should included sterile vials if I decide backfiling is not for me

I also have alcohol wipes

Dose this look good? Any criticisms or suggestions for stuff I should change or add to my haul?

 

[Ghoul]

BD Veo are the best insulin needles IMO, 6mm is the ideal SubQ injection depth according to a study the Mayo clinic did that led to the Veo design.

Prices vary wildly. Look for 90 count boxes, "not for retail sale", which tend to be much cheaper.

I like to keep both 1ml and the .3ml types on hand. The half unit markings on the .3ml are excellent for precision low dose,

I'll just put in a plug for BD alcohol wipes, which shed far less than others, and a box of 100 is $2 on Amazon, delivered,

You can skip the 18g of you're getting the admix needles. I think the Nokor vented may be a better choice if you can find a decent price.

 

[frenske]

Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely look into the BD Veo and alcohol wipes!

Question though, I saw you mentioned in another post you are experimenting with silicone free syringes with non-reactive stoppers and luer lock couplers. You specifically mentioned Norm-ject syringes. Do you prefer using a luer lock coupler to backfilling? And if so what syringes and couplers would you recommend?

 

[Photon]

BD Veo are the best insulin needles IMO, 6mm is the ideal SubQ injection depth according to a study the Mayo clinic did that led to the Veo design.

Prices vary wildly. Look for 90 count boxes, "not for retail sale", which tend to be much cheaper.

I like to keep both 1ml and the .3ml types on hand. The half unit markings on the .3ml are excellent for precision low dose,

I'll just put in a plug for BD alcohol wipes, which shed far less than others, and a box of 100 is $2 on Amazon, delivered,

You can skip the 18g of you're getting the admix needles. I think the Nokor vented may be a better choice if you can find a decent price.

Is there a link for that 6mm recommendation?

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/s0025-6196(16)30321-4/fulltext

The needle lengths that were once recommended for SC injection (for adults, ≥8 mm; for children, ≥6 mm) are now known to be too long because they increase the risk of IM injections without evidence of improved glucose control.

[B]The shortest-length [U]pen [/U]needle is 4 mm, but the shortest syringe needle today is 6 mm long [/B](the syringe needle has to pass through the vial septum or stopper).

The 4-mm needle is long enough to traverse the skin and enter the SC tissue, with little risk of IM (or intradermal) injection. Therefore, it is [B]considered the safest [U]pen [/U]needle[/B] for adults and children regardless of age, sex, ethnicity, or BMI. [B]A1[/B]

[B]The safest [U]currently [/U]available [U]syringe [/U]needle for all patients is 6 mm in length[/B]. However, when any syringe needle is used in children (≥6 years old), adolescents, or slim to normal-weight adults (BMI of 19-25 [calculated as the weight in kilograms divided by the height in meters squared]), injections should always be given into a lifted skinfold. A1

[B]Use needles of shorter length (4 mm or the shortest available) and smaller diameter (highest gauge number),[/B] and the tip with the lowest penetration force to minimize pain. Use a sterile, new needle with each injection. [B]A1[/B]

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext

Concern has been raised that needles as short as 4 mm might deposit insulin in the skin rather than in the subcutaneous (SC) fat. Skin thickness in adults with diabetes varies from approximately [B]1.25 to 3.25 mm for more than 90% [/B]of patients but averages approximately 2.0 to 2.5 mm.[URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#']16,20-22[/URL] Gibney et al found that in more than 350 adults with diabetes [B]there is remarkable consistency of skin thickness regardless of race, age, sex, or BMI[/B].[URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#']23[/URL] Children's skin is slightly thinner than that of adults but increases with age to adult levels after puberty.[URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#']24-26[/URL] However, these changes make little difference for insulin delivery. [B]The stability of this parameter (skin thickness) ensures that all currently available needles, including the shortest (4 mm), pass easily through the skin and into the SC ([URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#tbl2']Table 2[/URL]).[/B]

[URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#tbl3']Table 3[/URL] shows the use of different needle lengths by injection sites. A considerable percentage of patients continue to use [B]6- and 8-mm needles in the limbs despite recent evidence that the intramuscular (IM) injection risk is very high in these regions[/B][URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#'][B]8[/B][/URL]

I believe the reason they mentioned 6mm was because 4mm wasn't available years ago.

I've always used 32G 4mm but it's cause i was comfortable with it..not cause i read this article (first time seeing it).
Might switch to 33G in a few years..when my pen needles run out...

I also never understood the point of 18G non coring blunt needles. 18G basically destroys the core..and then you filter the rubber out?

There's 25G non-coring sharp ones. The 27G on that site is sold out.

Monoject Softpack Hypodermic Needle 25g x 5/8 , 100/BX

Kendall/Covidien Monoject Softpack Hypodermic Needle 25G X 5/8" (Box 100)

www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com

 

[frenske]

@Ghoul

 

[Ghoul]

Is there a link for that 6mm recommendation?

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/s0025-6196(16)30321-4/fulltext

The needle lengths that were once recommended for SC injection (for adults, ≥8 mm; for children, ≥6 mm) are now known to be too long because they increase the risk of IM injections without evidence of improved glucose control.

[B]The shortest-length [U]pen [/U]needle is 4 mm, but the shortest syringe needle today is 6 mm long [/B](the syringe needle has to pass through the vial septum or stopper).

The 4-mm needle is long enough to traverse the skin and enter the SC tissue, with little risk of IM (or intradermal) injection. Therefore, it is [B]considered the safest [U]pen [/U]needle[/B] for adults and children regardless of age, sex, ethnicity, or BMI. [B]A1[/B]

[B]The safest [U]currently [/U]available [U]syringe [/U]needle for all patients is 6 mm in length[/B]. However, when any syringe needle is used in children (≥6 years old), adolescents, or slim to normal-weight adults (BMI of 19-25 [calculated as the weight in kilograms divided by the height in meters squared]), injections should always be given into a lifted skinfold. A1

[B]Use needles of shorter length (4 mm or the shortest available) and smaller diameter (highest gauge number),[/B] and the tip with the lowest penetration force to minimize pain. Use a sterile, new needle with each injection. [B]A1[/B]

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext

Concern has been raised that needles as short as 4 mm might deposit insulin in the skin rather than in the subcutaneous (SC) fat. Skin thickness in adults with diabetes varies from approximately [B]1.25 to 3.25 mm for more than 90% [/B]of patients but averages approximately 2.0 to 2.5 mm.[URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#']16,20-22[/URL] Gibney et al found that in more than 350 adults with diabetes [B]there is remarkable consistency of skin thickness regardless of race, age, sex, or BMI[/B].[URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#']23[/URL] Children's skin is slightly thinner than that of adults but increases with age to adult levels after puberty.[URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#']24-26[/URL] However, these changes make little difference for insulin delivery. [B]The stability of this parameter (skin thickness) ensures that all currently available needles, including the shortest (4 mm), pass easily through the skin and into the SC ([URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#tbl2']Table 2[/URL]).[/B]

[URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#tbl3']Table 3[/URL] shows the use of different needle lengths by injection sites. A considerable percentage of patients continue to use [B]6- and 8-mm needles in the limbs despite recent evidence that the intramuscular (IM) injection risk is very high in these regions[/B][URL='https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30322-6/fulltext#'][B]8[/B][/URL]

I believe the reason they mentioned 6mm was because 4mm wasn't available years ago.

I've always used 32G 4mm but it's cause i was comfortable with it..not cause i read this article (first time seeing it).
Might switch to 33G in a few years..when my pen needles run out...

I also never understood the point of 18G non coring blunt needles. 18G basically destroys the core..and then you filter the rubber out?

There's 25G non-coring sharp ones. The 27G on that site is sold out.

Monoject Softpack Hypodermic Needle 25g x 5/8 , 100/BX

Kendall/Covidien Monoject Softpack Hypodermic Needle 25G X 5/8" (Box 100)

www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com

Same data BD used to make their recommendation. Went from 8mm to 6mm for syringes. Must be able to penetrate the stopper so they can't go any shorter.

Overall the VEOs have a lot of small details, the ergonomics, the clarity of the barrel, the exceptional sharpness and ultra thin wall that make them superior imo. Some competitors have similar needles now, but I've stuck with BD,

A PR news release but it sums up the results from the same study as it pertains to syringe length. I see no purpose in 8mm or 12.7mm any more.

Mayo Clinic Proceedings Publishes New Insulin Injection and Infusion Recommendations

/PRNewswire/ -- The prestigious medical journal, Mayo Clinic Proceedings, today published new insulin delivery recommendations for health care professionals...

www.prnewswire.com

The Nokor aren't blunt tip, they're scalpel tip and don't damage the stopper.

 

[Photon]

Same data BD used to make their recommendation. Went from 8mm to 6mm for syringes. Must be able to penetrate the stopper so they can't go any shorter.

Overall the VEOs have a lot of small details, the ergonomics, the clarity of the barrel, the exceptional sharpness and ultra thin wall that make them superior imo. Some competitors have similar needles now, but I've stuck with BD,

A PR news release but it sums up the results from the same study as it pertains to syringe length. I see no purpose in 8mm or 12.7mm any more.

Mayo Clinic Proceedings Publishes New Insulin Injection and Infusion Recommendations

/PRNewswire/ -- The prestigious medical journal, Mayo Clinic Proceedings, today published new insulin delivery recommendations for health care professionals...

www.prnewswire.com

The Nokor aren't blunt tip, they're scalpel tip and don't damage the stopper.

View attachment 319345

Oh ive not seen those. Its about 40USD for a box of 100.
16/18G tho....that'd destroy most stoppers..I'm not sure how much of anti coring will help since I've never tried one of these. That'd being said, if OP is not reusing the vial multiple times then it probably doesn't matter. I'm sure the stopper can take a few hits, anti coring or not.

Looks like its the same study and what i quoted as well..
Use the shortest available pen needle (currently 4mm) or syringe needle (currently 6mm) for all injecting patients, regardless of age, sex or body size.

Back then there was no 4mm

 

[Ghoul]

Oh ive not seen those. Its about 40USD for a box of 100.
16/18G tho....that'd destroy most stoppers..I'm not sure how much of anti coring will help since I've never tried one of these. That'd being said, if OP is not reusing the vial multiple times then it probably doesn't matter. I'm sure the stopper can take a few hits, anti coring or not.

Looks like its the same study and what i quoted as well..
Use the shortest available pen needle (currently 4mm) or syringe needle (currently 6mm) for all injecting patients, regardless of age, sex or body size.

Back then there was no 4mm

Don't they mention 4mm for pens?

You're not talking about 4mm syringes right?

 

[Photon]

Don't they mention 4mm for pens?

You're not talking about 4mm syringes right?

Oh you were saying 6mm so i assumed syringe.
My bad lol.

 

[Ghoul]

Best deal on the VEOs I've found.

The .3ml half unit marking are great for low volume.

Search: 3 results found for "veo"

Discover top diabetic care equipment and supplies in the USA at DiabeticPro. From glucose log books to essential diabetic supplies, manage your health with quality products you can trust.

diabeticpro.com

Some places charge $70 / 100, insane.

 

[Bobertson]

Best deal on the VEOs I've found.

The .3ml half unit marking are great for low volume.

Search: 3 results found for "veo"

Discover top diabetic care equipment and supplies in the USA at DiabeticPro. From glucose log books to essential diabetic supplies, manage your health with quality products you can trust.

diabeticpro.com

Some places charge $70 / 100, insane.

What is the wastage like on the veos? I did some searching but couldn’t find dead space on the veo vs. fine.

Are you just backfilling these? I’ve found that with these smaller gauge needles, they dull significantly after the rubber stopper.