Fertility Protocol - Need Help!

BigL32

New Member
Sorry for long post. Want to be thorough and appreciate any thoughts, insights, general comments, etc.


Overview:
36M - long term AAS user (10 years) trying to regain fertility. If it matters, 5’10, 210 pounds, BF 7-8%.

Background:
Started with an Endo. Went for sperm analysis and results came back ZERO. He referred me to a Urologist. Not sure if it matters but both are NYC doctors from a top tier Medical Group. I mention this because that is obviously a lot different from a doc out of a HRT clinic. Interested to hear people’s views on this. My wife insisted I go the most “reputable” doctors but that may not mean they know bodybuilders - not exactly their typical patients. I initially wanted to go the opposite (or follow a Dave Palumbo type protocol which maybe I should have)...

Timeline (4 months ago)
After the sperm results I dropped to a “cruise” dose of test a few months ago (250/week). Urologist had me get lab work done before first visit.

Lab results 1:
Test: over 1500
Estrogen: 18
FSH and LH - zero
Note: also zero sperm count from sperm analysis the same week.

Note - first Test reading probably high because of test E half life and I was only a couple weeks removed from a 750 test / 500 Mast cycle.

Doc put me on HCG (told me 2500 3x/week once I was off exogenous Test but to start lower and increase only once I dropped the Test). I followed advice and started tapering down the test and took about half the prescribed HCG.

2nd lab results - 3 months ago:
test 889
estrogen: 8
LH/FSH: *STILL ZERO*
1 month into HCG 1500 3x/week as instructed.

3rd lab result - 2 months ago
test: 1,029
estrogen: **BELOW 5**
FSH 0.5
LH: 0 (WTF!?)

Not sure why Test went up. Maybe bc of of timing since last injection or the HCG.

Dropped test completely 3 weeks ago - felt TERRIBLE. Zero libido, chronic fatigue, brain fog, etc.

4th lab result - 2 weeks ago
test 412
estrogen 6.8
FSH 0.4
LH 0.3

Been on hcg for 3+ months now (those results are each about 4 weeks apart). increases HCG to 2000 3x/week about 3 weeks ago.

**I dropped all test for 2 weeks before that last reading but I can’t deal with the depression and other symptoms for much longer - I feel miserable.***

I’ve also started adding HMG 35 3x/week (not prescribed by my urologist - just my own attempt to speed up fertility recovery). I am about to double it to 75 3x/week - based on Palumbo and other similar “fertility protocols” on the boards.

Question 1: Any reason for the consistent low estrogen? Anyone else experience that? I’m NOT using any SERMS or AIs. Even with test levels over 1500 it was ONLY 18. Every other reading is single digits!

I’m wondering if it’s contributing to my constant lack of energy / libido? Surprised my T was above 400 but I’m guessing that’s a result of the HCG.

Next Steps - PLEASE HELP:

**PRIORITY 1: get my wife pregnant.

**PRIORITY 2 - get back to not feeling like absolute crap.

**PRIORITY 3 - once pregnant get back “on” (really want to blast again and regain lost mass and strength). This is the longest cruise in 10 years (feel free to give me crap about spending more time cruising than blasting but clearly I’m learning my lesson the hard way) and I’m not handling the last few weeks of being completely off well. Usual cruises are 8-12 weeks but never “blasted” over 2 grams.

I’m maintaining mass better than I thought but gym sessions suck, strength is really dropping, motivation is gone, etc. I know there are lots of opinions on cleaning out / taking breaks but, aside from fertility issues, I’m perfectly happy being on TRT forever. [Side Note - all my bloodwork is currently healthy (during blasts my “only” bad markers have been HDL and BP and both are better than ever right now - even though I feel like jumping off a bridge)]. If I could go back in time I wish I prioritized hcg/pct instead of cruises but too late for that.

I told my doc about my severe depression/lack of energy and he suggested giving me exogenous test (cyp 125 mg /week) but it would probably slow down progress so I declined (I have my own test anytime I want and may opt to add some back in).

Question: any examples of complete shutdown recovery without coming off completely?

I don’t think I can hold out much longer - this feels like a heroine addiction going cold turkey except my symptoms are not showing signs of improving, That said. my wife has been dying to get pregnant for so long. I’d really appreciate insight. Pregnancy has to be my priority- I just really want to know if there is some type of middle ground solution (i.e. making it work with some type of TRT to get out of this misery).

Lot to digest there but really appreciate any feedback. Urologist is going to add “Recombinant FSH” to stimulate the sertoli cells once I show signs of intra testicular testosterone but I really want to get this over with sooner. I’m less interested in regaining natural HPTA function and solely interested in getting wife pregnant (hence my self prescribed hmg) and I’m interested in anyone else’s thoughts. I’ve been open with my doctors (endo and urologist) to this point with the exception of my recent HMG add on.

I’m also losing strength and muscle and it’s not helping my depression. I haven’t stepped on a scale bc it will not help my mental state but I’m sure I’m 5-10 pounds down (maybe off-set with some fat gains). Any insight much appreciated. Checking my sperm count again later this week but with LH and FSH so low not sure how optimistic I am.

Also, the doc keeps testing pregnenolone/progesterone. This is how he is gauging whether I have “ITT”. All my readings have been 0 (below minimum measurable threshold). How long does that take? That sounds like a full HPTA recovery. Again, late 30s with 10 years of use. Any idea how long that takes? This whole experience is a total eye opener - fertility was not something I worried about when I was 25 but now I’m seriously concerned about how reversible this long term damage really is.

Thanks for reading. Any ideas/experience/comments appreciated (even criticisms if it’s constructive). I tried to highlight my priorities but obviously have a lot of questions in there.

Sorry for spelling and disorganized - writing this from my iPhone.
 
Push through. Follow the directions of your doctors.

I used only hcg and she got pregnant on my current tren blast. Still researching it. Some doctors say it is ectopic some others say they have no clue what.

I blasted it 500iu ed for like 2 weeks initially.

I continued with 125iu ed for 2 months more.

I have no bloodwork for me.
Her hcg keeps getting higher and higher. Like a 50% increase every two days.
 
In theory, doctors know best....in theory.

I went through this twice. Had to hop off for 6 months before she got pregnant, then I went back on HRT, then we lost it, and I had to hop off again. As of today she is 11 weeks preger.

Each time I ran:

1000iu HCG EOD for weeks 1 & 2
12.5mg Aromasin EOD for weeks 1 & 2
Clomid 50mg EOD for weeks 3 - 6
Clomid 10mg ED until she was loaded up.

It takes more time than people think and yip, it sucks.

Best of luck to you man
 
I didn't read all the above, don't quote me.. I think it takes 80 days for new sperm to be made. Which sucks if one has to go off cycle for 3 months to try. But is dosing hcg on cycle/trt really getting wemon pregnant? But it would take 3 months or longer of hcg use. Hcg is what turns sperm production on?

I stopped doing pct and using hcg during cycle. I'm like you, going to be cycling for years/ rest of my life.

Side note: does anyone know the pros and cons to using clomid on cycle, with hcg? Meaning I want to stay blasting when the time comes when she has the talk with me. Clomid always increases my ejaculate whenever I did a pct.

When I did pct, this was my levels at the end of 4 weeks. Prior, used hcg all cycle, then 100mg clomid and 40mg nolva 1 week, 3 weeks 50/20mg
 

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I didn't read all the above, don't quote me.. I think it takes 80 days for new sperm to be made.
Something like that. But then, that's for a full reset of all swimmers. You are consonantly making new ones and technically it does only take one.

It took me over 3 months to lock one in (my problem was motility, not qty, fucked if I know why), but I have known guys that did knock up their girls (for better or worse) around week 3-4 of PCT as well (who previously had shit numbers for volume and motility).

Then again, I have seen studies where some guys are 6 months into recovery and still no dice. So it a pretty individual thing.

HCG on cycle will keep you fertile if you where fertile pre-cycle. If you where shooting blanks prior, it wont do much for you.
 
Something like that. But then, that's for a full reset of all swimmers. You are consonantly making new ones and technically it does only take one.

It took me over 3 months to lock one in (my problem was motility, not qty, fucked if I know why), but I have known guys that did knock up their girls (for better or worse) around week 3-4 of PCT as well (who previously had shit numbers for volume and motility).

Then again, I have seen studies where some guys are 6 months into recovery and still no dice. So it a pretty individual thing.

HCG on cycle will keep you fertile if you where fertile pre-cycle. If you where shooting blanks prior, it wont do much for you.
I know this is an old one but it came up as a reco'd thread. This is absolutely not true. I had a daughter, went on TRT + HCG and my sperm count is zero after a couple years. I'm using Pregnyl HCG btw as well. Do not think it is a given that you will retain any sort of fertility by using HCG on TRT.
 

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