First "big boy" cycle. How to maintain gains. Cycle type, length, etc...

[OnTheRize]

Looking to run my first compound AAS cycle and am looking for suggestions and am open to learning. Also...I'm sure it's been asked a million times before but...what is the best way to maintain some gains after a cycle. It's worth noting that I'm on TRT so PCT won't really apply here.

Basic info:
I'm 6'2, 190LBS, 12%BF, and 30yrs old. I've been training off and on for 14 years. Started TRT last year and started playing with the doses/grabbed a couple extra T-Cyp vials from some shady shiesty guys at my gym once I got dialed in. Check my labs fairly regularly, dump my blood when necessary, take my Adex when I need to, eat my oatmeal and gummy vitamins ery day etc...

Starting this cycle I want to be as AAS safe as AAS safe goes. Leaning on the fairly conservative side as far as my cycle goes. At 39 after a crazy youth my bodies a little busted up and I'm looking to avoid hazards down the road. No squats, hyper extensions, shrugs or deads due to chronic lumbar injury.
Taking a long overdue deload week at the gym. Elbows have been killing me on push days.

ME: "Mom, I'm ready to take the training wheels off and do my first big boy compound cycle".
MOM: "Ok honey, be safe and don't get hurt. Be nice to the other boys at the gym, don't forget your protein shake, and for fucks sake TIE YOUR FUCKING SHOES!"
ME: "K, thanks mom. Love you"
MOM: "Love you too sweetie. Go have fun..."
End transmission...(static)

I'm arming myself to the teeth with as much information as possible for a 12 week cycle in 2-1/2 months from now. So far I've run low doses of T-Cyp at 250mgs 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off for 4 months. My off weeks have been at 140mgs which is where my labs stay nice and healthy.
At only 250mgs a week I noticed some significant gains...which seems odd to me since most AAS users suggest 300mgs absolute minimum for newbs like myself. When the 4 weeks was over and I dropped back down to TRT dosages I, of course, lost a decent amount of strength and size...but...I hung on to some of it...hmmm

Anyway, here's the plan:
T-Cyp 490mgs weekly for 12 weeks 140mgs EOD
Deca 105mgs weekly for 12 weeks 30mgs EOD
Mast ?mgs weekly for ?weeks (to help cut)

I'm avoiding liver toxic orals until I KNOW my ALT and AST are in check for a good 6 months...but I'm entertaining Anavar for the last 6 weeks to help cut. I know Anavar is 17a alkylated but I'm told anecdotally that it's a lot less hard on the liver than orals like Dbol and Winnie. Anyone have experience with this? Am I way off? Anavar good, no good?

What do you guys think of my intial cycle outline?

How could I improve it?

Masteron? Should I add it? How much, for how long, and why? Why not?

I'm afraid to mess with Tren right now...shit seems crazy powerful and I want to watch my labs since I'll be sludging them a good bit with the other compounds already. Your thoughts?

I'm only running Deca as a little helper. My joints are fucked sometimes. I've read PubMed articles on Nandrolone Decanoate being used to treat rheumatoid arthritis to some effect but some people debunk it for that. I've heard it's good for tendinitis but some people debunk that. There's like 20 theories on how Deca helps joints. The information comes from AAS users themselves all the way to academic scientists and no one really knows for sure how this shit helps joint issues...there's just evidence that it does. Does anybody and I mean anybody actually have personal experience with Deca helping joint issues? What did it do? What did it help? How did it help?

Finally, how do I hold on to as much gains as I can when the cycles over? Conflicting opinions are welcome. I'd really like personal experience. Cycle length/type, follow up training routine, diet, other...?

I could use all and any feedback on this carpet bomb of questions. Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[testiFy]

run test at 600+ and deca at 300-400 pin 2x per week not eod. have caber on hand and know how to control your estrogen. 12-15 weeks should be good. I would not pin eod unless you were using npp. I would say run test 2 weeks longer than deca but you’re on TRT so it shouldn’t matter.

 

[LeoTC]

run test at 600+ and deca at 300-400 pin 2x per week not eod. have caber on hand and know how to control your estrogen. 12-15 weeks should be good. I would not pin eod unless you were using npp. I would say run test 2 weeks longer than deca but you’re on TRT so it shouldn’t matter.

Pretty much.

Ramp your calories up week over week. Keep eating big through PCT, keep the training intensity up through PCT.

And after actually.

Decide exactly what you want to do. Bulking and cutting in the same cycle is usually a zero sum game. Get big or get lean.

Weight a few months to start cutting, until you're somewhere close to homeostasis.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Pretty much.

Ramp your calories up week over week. Keep eating big through PCT, keep the training intensity up through PCT.

And after actually.

Decide exactly what you want to do. Bulking and cutting in the same cycle is usually a zero sum game. Get big or get lean.

Weight a few months to start cutting, until you're somewhere close to homeostasis.

He’s on TRT so no PCT. I think when he says “how to maintain my gains” he means after he drops back to TRT dose.

He should still follow exactly what you said, just substituting “TRT” for “PCT”.

 

[OnTheRize]

Bulk first, cut next cycle. BOOM, done! Thank you!

Your thoughts on Deca's efficacy on joint pain? Any experience? What's it worked on, what's it not?
I got plenty of Adex on hand for E2 control if needed.

Gentleman, thank you for your feedback. Please keep it coming

 

[testiFy]

Bulk first, cut next cycle. BOOM, done! Thank you!

Your thoughts on Deca's efficacy on joint pain? Any experience? What's it worked on, what's it not?
I got plenty of Adex on hand for E2 control if needed.

Gentleman, thank you for your feedback. Please keep it coming

Deca is excellent for relieving joint pain at 3-400mg. I actually would recommend only using deca for that and just using high test + an oral (optional) to bulk.

The only reason I don’t say to use tren is because tren with a lot of carbs causes my blood pressure to go nuts and leaves me feeling toxic after 5 weeks.

The ultimate bulk is test + slin + hgh but not everyone is there yet including myself LOL.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

This! Only change your deca dosage run a normal dosage between 300-600 all other the same mast start with 50mg mwf and you see from there you shouldn't need any AI. Throw in dbol/drol.
Btw deca is the best thing on planet for joints.
Also at your age I would consider a healthy GH dosage.

 

[Klimmzugernie]

Do not use deca until you know how your body responds. Use NPP as alternative nandrolone ester. It is the short version of deca and you simply can get off if you feel bad on it.

I don’t think caber would be necessary. The heathier alternative with less side effects is L-Dopa. Start with 250mgs and increase to 500mgs if necessary.

My proposal ist 250mgs Testosteron e/c and 200 NPP e3d
AI regularly.. most likely eod and 250-500mgs l-dopa daly

 

[Spokeonawheel]

Advice seems solid so far. I think.you would b happy w/ test at 500 to 600 and deca 300 to 400 weekly. No need to add in a ton of stuff. This will give you good results.

E2 really need to be kept in check when running deca so this will give you a chance to figure your adex dosage for this amount of gear. That will be the main challenge as far as keeping unwanted side effects at bay. So take some bloods and dial it in.

I think NPP is a good option for a first cycle with a nandrolone. It kicks in quicker and if it doesnt agree with you it's out of your system.pretty quick. More pinning tho.

I can attest to nandrolone giving some joint relief personally. Nagging elbow and shoulder pain has been better for a year since last time I ran NPP. Although I am unsure of the mechanism of action. And actual documented healing properties of nandrolone seem inconclusive.

 

[Spokeonawheel]

As far as keeping gains... keep lifting heavy. Push yourself. Dont think...well im.off cycle I'm not as strong....no. push like a motherfucker. Keep.your heavy lifts heavy. (As joints permit) Maintain your intensity when training. Those first 2.months after a cycle set the tone. Am I only.willing to push when it's easy? Or is it time to shine when it's not so easy? How do you want to spend your time?

Keep feeding the muscle you've gained. If you have gained 10 lbs one cycle your maintenance calories are not the same as before the cycle. Be sure to feed it.

 

[Heavy Iron]

I would also suggest waiting until about two weeks after starting test to start a nandrolone. I found that allowing the test to kick in before deca/npp kept libido high and no issues in the ED department. Now of course the test will be saturated before the deca if you started them at the same time, but still IME it worked out great. Especially if using NPP

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Seems paradox but when I run nandrolone , no matter what dosage of nand or test even without aniclinaries nandrolone raises my sex drive tremendously

 

[mp46]

My first big boy cycle was 525 test and 350NPP. I forget how I came to those numbers but it had something to do with my injection schedule. I only took the Npp specifically because I was recovering from a shoulder injury, I made more recovery in the 4-6 weeks after starting npp than the months before.

 

[OnTheRize]

As far as keeping gains... keep lifting heavy. Push yourself. Dont think...well im.off cycle I'm not as strong....no. push like a motherfucker. Keep.your heavy lifts heavy. (As joints permit) Maintain your intensity when training. Those first 2.months after a cycle set the tone. Am I only.willing to push when it's easy? Or is it time to shine when it's not so easy? How do you want to spend your time?

Keep feeding the muscle you've gained. If you have gained 10 lbs one cycle your maintenance calories are not the same as before the cycle. Be sure to feed it.

Damn straight...this is my mindset. Appreciate the feedback on Nandrolone. I wouldn't bother with it if it wasn't thought to help joints for one and for two it didn't have such a good anabolic to androgenic rating. It'll be interesting to see how I respond to its Progesterone and Prolactin agonistic behavior. Definitely keeping an eye out for sides and pulling labs for reference.
I don't really mind pinning since I am on a EOD TRT injection protocol. Does Deca offer anything that NPP doesn't regarding joint pain relief or AAS qualities?

 

[OnTheRize]

I would also suggest waiting until about two weeks after starting test to start a nandrolone. I found that allowing the test to kick in before deca/npp kept libido high and no issues in the ED department. Now of course the test will be saturated before the deca if you started them at the same time, but still IME it worked out great. Especially if using NPP

Good suggestion, makes a lot of sense, thank you.