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Anabolic Steroids

First Test E / Tren A cycle help

T

TheAngryHog

Member
First, to be clear, this is not my first cycle. It will be my fifth. All priors have been Test, with some oral exploration, dbol tbol var, etc.

I love Test E, honestly, I zerod in my bloods and 500 mg/wk with 25 mg aromasin eod is just sweet. Libido up, gym aggression up, great pumps, sleeping better, feeling more alert, basically no sides.

Any cycle I have going forward, I want to have 500 mg Test E in it. Assuming I want to do this, but also incorporate Tren A, how much per week should I be looking to run? I understand completely that many people prefer “low Test high Tren,” but I’m just not doing it. I want to at least try 500 mg Test because I know how my body responds to it. I also don’t want to be putting 800+ mg Tren, either. I was thinking 500mg of each per week. Would I be spinning my wheels doing this, or is it a viable dosing?

And to my second question, it appears that 100mg/ml Tren A dosing only comes out to 85 mg active Tren. Assuming, therefore, I wanted 500 mg in my system, I would actually have to inject roughly 590mg of Tren A, correct?

Finally, last question is, since Tren A is so quick acting, I was planning to front load Test E for a week at 1g/wk; then 500 wk 2, then start Tren weeks 3-14 (remainder of my cycle). I know Test P is popular for that reason, so I figured I would get the Test into my system before pinning the Tren. Thoughts on that?

Thanks,
Hog
 
Tren is strong AF. I've ran as much as a gram of test and 600 or more of deca and I've never ran more than 385 mg weekly of tren ace. Because I didnt need to. My advice would be to start at 350 weekly of tren A and see how you respond.

Is tis a bulking cycle? A lot of the low test tren cycles you see are usually for cutting.
High test and tren can work for bulking as long as the tren doesnt crush your appetite.
Food dictates so much anyway. As far as a bulk or cut goes....the drugs are really secondary.
 
Also I dont like running tren for.more than 6 to 8 weeks. It's just kind of rough on a guy. I do like the plan of using it at the end tho.

Not the biggest fan of front loading. Just let it build naturally.
 
So then, maybe I’ll scale it back to 350/wk of Tren? And I’ll let the test build naturally and run the Tren maybe weeks 6-12?

So if 500mg Test 350mg Tren A, you think this will be useful for a bulk? I don’t see how 250 Test is good for a cut when 500 would be good for a bulk. I could be wrong but I think the test issue is that it causes bloating, but at 500 and 25 mg exemestane eod I have virtually no bloat.

I just don’t understand what the difference would be...if anything more test would be good while running calorie deficiency to retain muscle? I don’t know.
 
Starting at 350 sounds good to me. You may find that is all you need. If you are running ace you can up your dose and see how it affects you at higher dosages pretty quickly.

And as far as low test and bulking.....you dont need a ton of test to hold onto muscle tissue. Just enough to retain it while in a caloric deficit. Most of the other "cutting drugs" you see in a cycle are there for the look they give when bf% is very low. They aren't doing the work of cutting the BF that's all diet.
Tren does do.some interesting things during a cut but I can't really comment there as I have no personal experience.

Hopefully a few others can chime in with their experiences and give some ideas or thoughts for you on this cycle.
 
And last last question, is there a real difference pinning 100mg eod vs 50mg ed? Like obviously 50 mg ed is more stable, but how much so? Should I inj 5x a day 10 mg for ultimate stability? I’m kidding of course, just asking because one post I read (was comprehensive and informed) advocated strongly against eod and in favor of ed, I think in part because of stability but also because of potential sides being stronger with more Tren in the system in the 24 hours following the pin.
 
5-10mg of acutane eod will help with acnee too, like they said above ed is better then eod, I do eod cause I get PiP mostly all injection for 1-2 day. Good luck and have fun!
 
First off: Everyone is different, this is relative to me and my journey, my experimentation. We are our own experiment. Don't limit yourself to cookie cutter cycles or blast dosages. Find what combinations work for you.
I don't recommend Deca, or Tren for those who cycle. Deca requires a modified PCT protocol, and you drop Deca up too two, even 4 weeks prior to dropping Test, depending on dosage of Deca. You might as well just blast and cruise. Chances of full recovery are slim with those two compounds (deca or tren)

My question: why such a high dose of AI? Did you adjust by feel, or bloodwork? As time goes, and if your diet is consistent(I food prep), you will be able to know by how you feel. My water intake and food are pretty consistent. My nutrient timing of carbs, and sodium are the same everyday. Except off days(6 on 2 off).

My thoughts:
If I went by bloodwork to dial in my Aromasin dosage, and estro in range, I would be cheating myself like I did for my first couple blasts. I realized the power of elevated estrogen when I went on a cruise of 200mg Test E/week,and totally dropped AI. Added Nolvadex at 10mg E4D. I freakn exploded, blew up. Attained pumps like never before. Greater sense of well being. Had blood taken after 10wks off. Estro was slightly high range, elevated.
Did research. Next blast of 600 Test E and 600 Deca, only took Nolvadex at 10mg EOD.
Literally blew my mind. Elevated estrogen, or "not in range" was the key for far more gains. I no longer woke up feeling flat. Felt pumped all the time. Strength and drive far better.
Seth Feroce is also known for not using an AI and using Nolvadex to block. Other certain compounds also attribute to estro control.

Some bloat is not so bad, and is responsible for some of the strength gains, and cushion felt when training often.

I believe you should experiment first with lower dose AI, and Test E only. Do not use Anadrol or DBol during the experiment for reasons related to conversion and not knowing sensitivity without AI or low dose AI.

AI requirements change over time as body composition changes.
I can run up to 1.2g of Test E and 900mg Deca with no AI, only 20mg Nolva EOD. Probably more.

If I am going to the beach tomorrow, I can take 25mg Aromasin, and next day wake up with far less water retention, far more ripped. Muscle bellies will be flatter, but some Ramen and Gatorade(sodium and carbs) I look freakn diced. What I am saying is: AI manipulation is something some use during contest prep. I do not compete, but have experimented with some protocols. They typically include adding Aromasin, 12.5mg ED if a week out, up to 25mg ED. This will dry you out. (everyone is different).

Enough about the overuse of AI, there are threads here, and I have some as well.

First time Tren A:
I would run it last 8 weeks of blast.
Use a Test dose that you know how your body responds. Then adding Tren A will be the only new variable to monitor.
Don't get wrapped up in ester weights.
I recommend starting at 50mg Tren A ED.
I use 27G 1" with smaller 1ml syringes.

You should notice Tren A within first week. At day 5 or 7. Now, give it two more weeks at 50mg ED. See how you feel.
Don't expect it to BLOW YOUR SOCKS OFF. People overhype Tren way too much.
You could stay at 500mg Test E, and 50mg Tren A ED and have an insane cycle. The only limiting factor is your high AI dose.

Running Tren A, with higher dose AI is a trainwreck. Far greater chance of jealousy and other mental issues. There are studies regarding low estrogen and relationship jealousy. There are other issues with low estrogen regarding mentality. (Similar to highly elevated estrogen). I also speak from personal experience.
I can promise you that no matter how head strong you think you are: once you experiment with 80 to 100mg Tren A everyday, while using an AI dose too high, you will meet the person everyone claims is a myth. You will see and feel the rage that really exists. It's not really Tren A itself. It's low estro with Tren A.
I will tell you that since I no longer use an AI, and when I did dare to run 80 to 100mg Tren A everyday, fingers crossed, promising to abort mission if my sinister self shows,.... with no AI, I did not experience mental issues.
What I did experience was the result of Tren loving an atmosphere of elevated estrogen. Do some research on Tren and estrogen.

So final answer: experiemebt with lower AI dose.
If you have Nolvadex, you can try first 6 weeks with no AI and Test E only. If you begin to get sensitive nipples start 10mg Nolva ED or 20mg Nolva EOD. It should go away. When it does drop to 20mg E3D. Keep an eye on Blood Pressure. At week 7 Add Tren A 50mg ED for another 8 weeks. 14 wks total. Adjust timing if necessary.
Adjust everything if necessary.
This is all just an option.
 
Last edited:
Continuing from above:
IMPORTANT!
Since I am advocating higher estro range, there is something you must have on hand.
A dopamine agonist such as Caber or Prami.
If your AI dose was originally high because you are sensitive to estro sides, just another reason to have on hand BEFORE you attempt Tren. Since it's Tren A, you could just stop Tren A, because of short clearance time. If you have prami or caber on hand, you don't have to terminate your Tren portion of cycle.

If you begin to get sensitive nipples after adding Tren A, you may need to run Prami or Caber. Don't just run them "just because". Only if needed. Try to see if you can stop use after symptoms subside. If they return, start running again then drop down to less frequent dose.
 
DozerSoldier said:
First off: Everyone is different, this is relative to me and my journey, my experimentation. We are our own experiment. Don't limit yourself to cookie cutter cycles or blast dosages. Find what combinations work for you.
I don't recommend Deca, or Tren for those who cycle. Deca requires a modified PCT protocol, and you drop Deca up too two, even 4 weeks prior to dropping Test, depending on dosage of Deca. You might as well just blast and cruise. Chances of full recovery are slim with those two compounds (deca or tren)

My question: why such a high dose of AI? Did you adjust by feel, or bloodwork? As time goes, and if your diet is consistent(I food prep), you will be able to know by how you feel. My water intake and food are pretty consistent. My nutrient timing of carbs, and sodium are the same everyday. Except off days(6 on 2 off).

My thoughts:
If I went by bloodwork to dial in my Aromasin dosage, and estro in range, I would be cheating myself like I did for my first couple blasts. I realized the power of elevated estrogen when I went on a cruise of 200mg Test E/week,and totally dropped AI. Added Nolvadex at 10mg E4D. I freakn exploded, blew up. Attained pumps like never before. Greater sense of well being. Had blood taken after 10wks off. Estro was slightly high range, elevated.
Did research. Next blast of 600 Test E and 600 Deca, only took Nolvadex at 10mg EOD.
Literally blew my mind. Elevated estrogen, or "not in range" was the key for far more gains. I no longer woke up feeling flat. Felt pumped all the time. Strength and drive far better.
Seth Feroce is also known for not using an AI and using Nolvadex to block. Other certain compounds also attribute to estro control.

Some bloat is not so bad, and is responsible for some of the strength gains, and cushion felt when training often.

I believe you should experiment first with lower dose AI, and Test E only. Do not use Anadrol or DBol during the experiment for reasons related to conversion and not knowing sensitivity without AI or low dose AI.

AI requirements change over time as body composition changes.
I can run up to 1.2g of Test E and 900mg Deca with no AI, only 20mg Nolva EOD. Probably more.

If I am going to the beach tomorrow, I can take 25mg Aromasin, and next day wake up with far less water retention, far more ripped. Muscle bellies will be flatter, but some Ramen and Gatorade(sodium and carbs) I look freakn diced. What I am saying is: AI manipulation is something some use during contest prep. I do not compete, but have experimented with some protocols. They typically include adding Aromasin, 12.5mg ED if a week out, up to 25mg ED. This will dry you out. (everyone is different).

Enough about the overuse of AI, there are threads here, and I have some as well.

First time Tren A:
I would run it last 8 weeks of blast.
Use a Test dose that you know how your body responds. Then adding Tren A will be the only new variable to monitor.
Don't get wrapped up in ester weights.
I recommend starting at 50mg Tren A ED.
I use 27G 1" with smaller 1ml syringes.

You should notice Tren A within first week. At day 5 or 7. Now, give it two more weeks at 50mg ED. See how you feel.
Don't expect it to BLOW YOUR SOCKS OFF. People overhype Tren way too much.
You could stay at 500mg Test E, and 50mg Tren A ED and have an insane cycle. The only limiting factor is your high AI dose.

Running Tren A, with higher dose AI is a trainwreck. Far greater chance of jealousy and other mental issues. There are studies regarding low estrogen and relationship jealousy. There are other issues with low estrogen regarding mentality. (Similar to highly elevated estrogen). I also speak from personal experience.
I can promise you that no matter how head strong you think you are: once you experiment with 80 to 100mg Tren A everyday, while using an AI dose too high, you will meet the person everyone claims is a myth. You will see and feel the rage that really exists. It's not really Tren A itself. It's low estro with Tren A.
I will tell you that since I no longer use an AI, and when I did dare to run 80 to 100mg Tren A everyday, fingers crossed, promising to abort mission if my sinister self shows,.... with no AI, I did not experience mental issues.
What I did experience was the result of Tren loving an atmosphere of elevated estrogen. Do some research on Tren and estrogen.

So final answer: experiemebt with lower AI dose.
If you have Nolvadex, you can try first 6 weeks with no AI and Test E only. If you begin to get sensitive nipples start 10mg Nolva ED or 20mg Nolva EOD. It should go away. When it does drop to 20mg E3D. Keep an eye on Blood Pressure. At week 7 Add Tren A 50mg ED for another 8 weeks. 14 wks total. Adjust timing if necessary.
Adjust everything if necessary.
This is all just an option.
Click to expand...
Wow that’s a lot and also a bunch that I have to consider. To answer one of your questions. The AI dose is because I had gyno from puberty (test levels were 1150+, e2 was through the roof) and so I had a huge muscular high school body with giant glands. Even pre roids into my mid 20s my test levels were on the very high end. Anyway, got them removed but, any time I slack on my diet or put on a few extra pounds, or even eat buffalo wings or high salt foods with water retention, my nips blow up. I found that at 500 mg test e / week, aromasin e3d was simply not enough. This was confirmed by bloods 8 weeks into a 13 week cycle.

I had 3 acl surgeries in the past which all included meniscus removal. When I have way low estrogen, like if I took it everyday, my knee starts killing me. It’s like a free warning sign. Every other day though? No problems. Off cycle I take aromasin e3d and it’s great. I think my body is just more test receptive and more estrogen prone, such is life.

It scares me a little though that you say there is no full recovery from Tren. Gonna look into that as well
 
NEAR full recovery is possible. There are studies regarding this. Breaks between cycles won't be long enough. Some functions upwards of 18 months.
Most do another cycle by then.
When all is said and done, in the end, when one decides to stop cycling, after many cycles....
Highly unlikely full recovery, and long recovery process, which will result in loss of gains.
The psychological hit can be huge as well. Then you have the issue where you may end up finding out, with age, you may need to be on TRT anyway.
I am 39, so I blast and cruise. My dosages are lower now. Thinking long term health.
My big blast now would be:
Wks 1-8
Test E: 600wk
Deca: 600wk
Tren E: 400wk
Mk 677: 12.5mg before bed
10mg Nolva EOD
20mg Cialis EOD

Wks 9-16
Bump Test E dosage to 900mg and pinning schedule to 300mg Mon. and wed. morning and Fri. night.
Rotate EOD nolva dosage from 10mg, 20mg, 10mg, 20mg....

Another option:

Wks 1-10
Test E: 720wk
Deca: 600wk
Tren E: 400wk
Mk 677: 12.5mg before bed
10mg Nolva EOD
20mg Cialis EOD

Wks 11-16
-Bump Test E dosage to 900mg and pinning schedule to 300mg Mon. and wed. morning and Fri. night.
-Bump Tren E to 600mg
Rotate EOD nolva dosage from 10mg, 20mg, 10mg, 20mg....

I may end up never going above 600 next blast using Test E, Deca, and 400 Tren e.
My bloodwork is fine, but may end up saying goodbye to Tren for good.
 
Best cycle I ran was 100 tren rod 600 mast and 500 test e. The mast really helped with estro sides. Wich sounds like u have so if I were u I would include mast in al your cycles. Mast and tren in the bodybuilding world is know as the food of the gods. You can cut and do a great lean bulk depending on diet.
 
overhyping tren pftt please dude next to halotestin tren is the most potent anabolic you will ever get

you probably haven't injected a dose of real tren yet

you got deca or some shit
 
Turbo charged said:
Best cycle I ran was 100 tren rod 600 mast and 500 test e. The mast really helped with estro sides. Wich sounds like u have so if I were u I would include mast in al your cycles. Mast and tren in the bodybuilding world is know as the food of the gods. You can cut and do a great lean bulk depending on diet.
Click to expand...
tren and mast at the same time, shit will turn you into a sexual deviant
 
Steady Pawgin said:
overhyping tren pftt please dude next to halotestin tren is the most potent anabolic you will ever get

you probably haven't injected a dose of real tren yet

you got deca or some shit
Click to expand...
Some people do overhype it. 4wks superdrol does more for me than 8wks tren. Pfffttt.....superdrol is stronger,anadrol, halo, and a few others. I've run a lot of tren too.
 
Tren and mast is awesome nothing better. Unless u throw winstrol in the mix then you have the ultimate. Lol. All jokes aside if u have estrogen issues throw mast in all your cycles it will really help along side a ai like aromasin.
 
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