Gyno on 90mg of NPP....

[TTK]

Obviously there's more than just 90mg of NPP in play here, but it's not a ton of gear.

So I decided to incorporate a 19-nor for the first time. I've been getting everything I want out of test and primo for years so the NPP is just to satisfy my curiosity.

I'd been bulking on 235/235 Test/Primo for a couple of months before I upped it to 325/325 two weeks ago. I did some bloodwork then and my E2 came back at 161 pmol/l. Pretty much exactly where I expected/wanted it to be. I've never had issues with high estrogen sides, even on up to 500 pmol/l!

But one week ago, shortly after getting my bloodwork back, I added 90mg of NPP into the mix, and yesterday I noticed a tender lump under my left nipple. This has to be a coincidence, right?

Someone will correct me on this, but from what I understand prolactin potentiates the effects on estrogen on its receptor in the breast tissue? Could it be that this tiny bump of NPP has turned me from someone who tolerates high E2 just, to someone who doesn't?

Since I've had no e2 issues for years I don't even keep an AI on hand any longer. I feel like I should probably drive my E2 down into the reference range while I'm experiencing this. I do have access to pharma letrozole so I might dose 1.25mg/4 days until my supplier can get some Aromasin to me.

Thoughts from those who know their 19-nors?

 

[explodingHeart]

Could it be that this tiny bump of NPP has turned me from someone who tolerates high E2 just, to someone who doesn't?

You've answered your own question. If I were you, I'd lower my estro ASAP and hope the gyno is reversible (which is debatable) if you do it fast enough.

 

[TTren]

Obviously there's more than just 90mg of NPP in play here, but it's not a ton of gear.

So I decided to incorporate a 19-nor for the first time. I've been getting everything I want out of test and primo for years so the NPP is just to satisfy my curiosity.

I'd been bulking on 235/235 Test/Primo for a couple of months before I upped it to 325/325 two weeks ago. I did some bloodwork then and my E2 came back at 161 pmol/l. Pretty much exactly where I expected/wanted it to be. I've never had issues with high estrogen sides, even on up to 500 pmol/l!

But one week ago, shortly after getting my bloodwork back, I added 90mg of NPP into the mix, and yesterday I noticed a tender lump under my left nipple. This has to be a coincidence, right?

Someone will correct me on this, but from what I understand prolactin potentiates the effects on estrogen on its receptor in the breast tissue? Could it be that this tiny bump of NPP has turned me from someone who tolerates high E2 just, to someone who doesn't?

Since I've had no e2 issues for years I don't even keep an AI on hand any longer. I feel like I should probably drive my E2 down into the reference range while I'm experiencing this. I do have access to pharma letrozole so I might dose 1.25mg/4 days until my supplier can get some Aromasin to me.

Thoughts from those who know their 19-nors?

if ur getting gyno on 300 test ur bodyfat is prob too high or u could have underdosed/bunk primo either way u should have had arimidex or aromasin on hand

 

[TTK]

if ur getting gyno on 300 test ur bodyfat is prob too high or u could have underdosed/bunk primo either way u should have had arimidex or aromasin on hand

lol

Thanks for the insight bud

 

[BigTomJ]

It's extremely unlikely that just 90mg of npp was enough to cause any meaningful changes in prolactin.

You're casually running your e2 at twice the reference range or more. Whether you noticed any tissue development before or not, that's why you have gyno right now.

Include an AI ASAP and go get new bloods.

 

[TTK]

It's extremely unlikely that just 90mg of npp was enough to cause any meaningful changes in prolactin.

You're casually running your e2 at twice the reference range or more. Whether you noticed any tissue development before or not, that's why you have gyno right now.

Include an AI ASAP and go get new bloods.

Thanks Tom, that's an alarming thought.

I just might check my units though, the lab I use has an upper reference for males of 146pmol/l (42pg/ml). So I'm just outside of that at 46 pg/ml.

Does that line up with the reference ranges you use?

I'm looking at a few US labs listing an upper limit of 50 pg/ml for men.

I just want to be sure we're talking the same numbers.

To be clear the 500pmol/l result was an outlier. I've been very consistently keeping my E2 below 250pmol/l (70pg/ml) on cycle.

 

[BigTomJ]

Thanks Tom, that's an alarming thought.

I just might check my units though, the lab I use has an upper reference for males of 146pmol/l (42pg/ml). So I'm just outside of that at 46 pg/ml.

Does that line up with the reference ranges you use?

I'm looking at a few US labs listing an upper limit of 50 pg/ml for men.

I just want to be sure we're talking the same numbers.

To be clear the 500pmol/l result was an outlier. I've been very consistently keeping my E2 below 250pmol/l (70pg/ml) on cycle.

I had foolishly assumed you were using pg/ml. 46pg/ml is not crazy high and is in fact right around the sweet spot for myself.

Still get a hold of some aromasin and try like 12.5mg twice a week and get some fresh bloodwork but include prolactin again.

Elevated prolactin by itself is super uncommon and usually is a result high e2, but it's not impossible.

 

[1Megaman]

You taking any HGH in the cycle?

 

[TTK]

You taking any HGH in the cycle?

Not this time.

But I did forget to mention that I'm also on 10mg 'var daily. But I don't see how it could be a factor.

 

[sbtr12]

Thanks Tom, that's an alarming thought.

I just might check my units though, the lab I use has an upper reference for males of 146pmol/l (42pg/ml). So I'm just outside of that at 46 pg/ml.

Does that line up with the reference ranges you use?

I'm looking at a few US labs listing an upper limit of 50 pg/ml for men.

I just want to be sure we're talking the same numbers.

To be clear the 500pmol/l result was an outlier. I've been very consistently keeping my E2 below 250pmol/l (70pg/ml) on cycle.

Your E2 range is fine. He didn't read the measurement correctly so his statement about gyno is likely incorrect.

IMO you should have an AI on hand just in case but I wouldn't use it unless your bloods dictate it and I wouldn't use anything for perceived prolactin issues unless your bloods dictate it.

If you have symptoms but your bloods aren't showing anything remarkable with E2 or prolactin maybe consider seeing a doc to figure out what the actual issue is.

 

[immatty]

Sorry for hijacking this post TTK .. I have a simple question regarding blood work for a follow up of a few weeks of 250 Test / 100 NPP (split in EOD) .

Would the below biomarkers be enough or anything else is needed ?

Thanks!

Edit:
I'm actually having the same sensitivity after 2 weeks of adding the NPP. But I also changed the injection frequency (I was doing twice a week of Test only) - I took 0.5mg arimidex right when I realized the sensitivity (two days ago) and I'm now doing good. I was planning to do an early check on the blood work to see any any adjustments were needed. My goal is to check how my body reacts to NPP before increasing any other numbers.

 

[Markimus Rex]

Obviously there's more than just 90mg of NPP in play here, but it's not a ton of gear.

So I decided to incorporate a 19-nor for the first time. I've been getting everything I want out of test and primo for years so the NPP is just to satisfy my curiosity.

I'd been bulking on 235/235 Test/Primo for a couple of months before I upped it to 325/325 two weeks ago. I did some bloodwork then and my E2 came back at 161 pmol/l. Pretty much exactly where I expected/wanted it to be. I've never had issues with high estrogen sides, even on up to 500 pmol/l!

But one week ago, shortly after getting my bloodwork back, I added 90mg of NPP into the mix, and yesterday I noticed a tender lump under my left nipple. This has to be a coincidence, right?

Someone will correct me on this, but from what I understand prolactin potentiates the effects on estrogen on its receptor in the breast tissue? Could it be that this tiny bump of NPP has turned me from someone who tolerates high E2 just, to someone who doesn't?

Since I've had no e2 issues for years I don't even keep an AI on hand any longer. I feel like I should probably drive my E2 down into the reference range while I'm experiencing this. I do have access to pharma letrozole so I might dose 1.25mg/4 days until my supplier can get some Aromasin to me.

Thoughts from those who know their 19-nors?

I read so many say that running a 1:1 ratio of test and primo would crush their e2, Im surprised that yours is so high, are you sure your primo isnt underdosed?

 

[phenominal34]

if ur getting gyno on 300 test ur bodyfat is prob too high or u could have underdosed/bunk primo either way u should have had arimidex or aromasin on hand

Did you not read NPP brought into it ?

Where’s the NPP from @TTK ?

 

[malfeasance]

Not this time.

But I did forget to mention that I'm also on 10mg 'var daily. But I don't see how it could be a factor.

Any updates? It's been weeks. What did you do? Any results yet?

 

[TTK]

I read so many say that running a 1:1 ratio of test and primo would crush their e2, Im surprised that yours is so high, are you sure your primo isnt underdosed?

Jano tested QSC Primo. I'm confident in the dosage. I've always been a high aromatiser, even at < 15% BF.

Did you not read NPP brought into it ?

Where’s the NPP from @TTK ?

Jano tested QSC

Any updates? It's been weeks. What did you do? Any results yet?

Yes, after introducing 1.25mg Letrozole E3D the lump rapidly disappeared and is now basically imperceptible. At the same time I shed about 2kg of water weight which has also stayed off.

I switched over to Aromasin once I had that on hand and am continuing on that @ 12.5mg E3D. No low E2 symptoms but it's likely much lower than I am accustomed to. Face is looking a little drier.

I haven't done another round of bloodwork as the introduction of the AI has done pretty much what I hoped it would do and I'm feeling fine. My regular scheduled test is due in a week so I'll find out then

 

[88general88]

Obviously there's more than just 90mg of NPP in play here, but it's not a ton of gear.

So I decided to incorporate a 19-nor for the first time. I've been getting everything I want out of test and primo for years so the NPP is just to satisfy my curiosity.

I'd been bulking on 235/235 Test/Primo for a couple of months before I upped it to 325/325 two weeks ago. I did some bloodwork then and my E2 came back at 161 pmol/l. Pretty much exactly where I expected/wanted it to be. I've never had issues with high estrogen sides, even on up to 500 pmol/l!

But one week ago, shortly after getting my bloodwork back, I added 90mg of NPP into the mix, and yesterday I noticed a tender lump under my left nipple. This has to be a coincidence, right?

Someone will correct me on this, but from what I understand prolactin potentiates the effects on estrogen on its receptor in the breast tissue? Could it be that this tiny bump of NPP has turned me from someone who tolerates high E2 just, to someone who doesn't?

Since I've had no e2 issues for years I don't even keep an AI on hand any longer. I feel like I should probably drive my E2 down into the reference range while I'm experiencing this. I do have access to pharma letrozole so I might dose 1.25mg/4 days until my supplier can get some Aromasin to me.

Thoughts from those who know their 19-nors?

In this situation your best bet is to stop the NPP altogether, toss in some nolva and adex, draw bloods. (Ultra sensitive e2 test.) Once you have A good handle on everything then make a educated decision. On what your next step is to take. Good luck