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BigRagu

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Hey guys........ Well my great endo has turned me down for hcg......... he said if i want my fertility back to stop the test and there is nothing he can do for my 1 shunken testicle....... he was going to give it to me.....got in touch with my uro/cancer doc he said it was fine for me to use... me and my uro/cancer doc are realyl close (no not like that but he listens and we always talk).... then after a week and half of be bugging the doctor this morning he wakes me up after being asleep 4 hours to tell me he isn't going to give me the hcg... he said i can either get the hcg or the test...... the converstation got to the point where we were yelling at each other and he told me don't try and teach him medicine (i think he got mad i was winning the convo).... then he started to tell me that he wants proof .... HE KNOWS WHAT HCG $%@# DOES...... i even offered him swale's protocol and he said he wants a study... seems like he works for the pharm compaines...... then i proceded to tell him that he wasn't innovative and didn't know what he was talking about.... he hung up because i could really lay it on him... if it was in person i would of made this a big seen......... SOME1...ANY1.... HAVE ANY DOCUMENTED RESEARCH STUDIE that they can give me so i can ram it up his a$$ jail style...... i dont even care if i get the hcg... i must win this ..... i can't stand a doc who thinks he knows everything.......... then he wanted to send me to a reproductive endo.......... give me a friggin break...... i will talk to my uro maybe he will give me the hcg...he know i know alittle about this stuff and he knows the endo was going to write me the script for it

so if some1 can please give me any study they have of test and hcg being used together.....i will take more then one and throw the book at him..so send me all u got....haha i got test rage.......... i was so close to finishing all of this and this mr know it all that i have been showing how to do this along the way thinks he knows everything............. ok i will be looking for a new doctor and i will prob be getting this crap off the street in the mean time............ SWALE u need to move to philly seriously..................
 
BigRagu bro, there's nothing like positivism. Contrary to animals we indeed tend to be negatives about almost everything.

I would love to see the moment when Swale proves his protocol and while doing so, proving to the rest of doctors they were on the wrong track.

Like any new theories showing signs to take over, it looks to me his movement with adapted protocols is more insurgent than practical.

I see testosterone, hcg, clomiphene, even selegiline on isolation rather than compound exercises.

"You can't have your cake and eat it too."
 
This is what I have here is the link.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1712735&dopt=Abstract
with a cut & paste I hope it helps you I can't understand most of it most of it reading this stuff turns of my brain.
Phil

Fertil Steril. 1991 Aug;56(2):225-9. Related Articles, Links


Pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics after subcutaneous and intramuscular injection of human chorionic gonadotropin.

Saal W, Glowania HJ, Hengst W, Happ J.

Bundeswehrzentralkrankenhaus, Koblenz, Germany.

OBJECTIVE: The pharmacokinetics and efficiency of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) after subcutaneous (SC) injection was to clarify in comparison with the intramuscular (IM) mode of administration. DESIGN: In a prospective study, the pharmacokinetics of hCG and the response of serum testosterone (T), luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) after an IM and SC injection of 5,000 IU hCG were evaluated up to 144 hours in two randomized groups. SETTING: The study was carried out in a clinical dermatology department providing tertiary care. PARTICIPANTS: Twenty-four healthy male volunteers with a mean age of 22.7 +/- 4.3 years were divided into two groups. INTERVENTIONS: Human chorionic gonadotropin (5,000 IU) was injected IM or SC. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE: Serum concentration of /b-hCG, T, LH, and FSH were evaluated after IM and SC administration of hCG. Differences between the two groups were determined by t-test. RESULTS: Compared with IM administration of hCG, peak serum drug concentration was significantly delayed (P = 0.01) and serum half-life was prolonged (P = 0.01) after SC injection; however, T, LH, and FSH responses were identical. CONCLUSIONS: Subcutaneous application of 5,000 IU hCG is as effective as IM administration in terms of steroidogenesis.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 1712735 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
pmgamer18 said:
CONCLUSIONS: Subcutaneous application of 5,000 IU hCG is as effective as IM administration in terms of steroidogenesis.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 1712735 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Click to expand...

it doesn't say anything, disregard.
 
if u can get a study where they use test injections and hcg at the same time would be best..... that way he can't deny me............. i think i might have to raise the money and see an anti-aging clinic about this.... i'm talking to a guy from one now and it seems like he is openminded and he belongs to the same organization as swale..........
 
I think even Swale has said that all of the evidence to support his protocol is anecdotal. He hasn't, and nobody else has done controlled studies. My doc has chatted with Swale and listened to his presentations at A4M conferences. I asked him what he thought about Swale's HCG protocol and he dismissed it, saying that there weren't any studies, that all the evidence was anecdotal. I reminded him that doctors rely on anecdotal evidence all the time.
 
BigRagu -> pm me if you need some info about an anti-aging clinic.

i don't put it on the board due to advertising rules with the meso board.
 
HeadDoc said:
this is a study posted by Jboldman at CEM that would support your request.

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14099&highlight=hcg
Click to expand...

Doc I must say I am very impressed with your research skills, this is not the first time you pull something like this. I and surely other bros thank you for it.

the med article jboldman referred to was 15713727 titled LOW DOSE HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADOTROPIN MAINTAINS INTRATESTICULAR TESTOSTERONE IN NORMAL MEN WITH TESTOSTERONE INDUCED GONADOTROPIN SUPPRESSION.

I also must add the word normal is highlighted. I would disregard it as well since BigRagu's concern is to find any proof on hypogonadal men.
 
if u have any1 can u please post them also.......... like i said the more i walk in there with the harder it will hurt when i smack him in the face with it..... btw thx all u guys for the help............ i have no clue how u found that..........
 
ciobl said:
.

I also must add the word normal is highlighted. I would disregard it as well since BigRagu's concern is to find any proof on hypogonadal men.
Click to expand...

Huh?? It seems about as close as you will find to the killer reference.
 
BigRagu said:
if u have any1 can u please post them also.......... like i said the more i walk in there with the harder it will hurt when i smack him in the face with it..... btw thx all u guys for the help............ i have no clue how u found that..........
Click to expand...
disreguard it? nah because even though they are normal they are still being given test that shut down their system (200mg cyp)...... so it turns them into me.................. but yea im not going to highlight it he will prob want to fight with me about that one too...........
 
BigRagu said:
disreguard it? nah because even though they are normal they are still being given test that shut down their system (200mg cyp)...... so it turns them into me.................. but yea im not going to highlight it he will prob want to fight with me about that one too...........
Click to expand...
You can turn this into a battle of wills between you and this doctor. Or you can find a different doctor who will work with you to your satisfaction.

I suggest the latter.
 
Even though the titel mentions normal, you can reference the last paragraph ->

These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression.

After all you are healthy with gonadotropin suppression (hypogonadism) :D
 
DavidZ said:
You can turn this into a battle of wills between you and this doctor. Or you can find a different doctor who will work with you to your satisfaction.

I suggest the latter.
Click to expand...
yea i'm looking for a doctor now....think i found one but it's way expensive to see ..so expensive it would cut into school money..
but he started so i'm going to finish it...... he challenged i shall win!....... i already made him feel like an azz on the phone ,..... the one time he tried to adjust my dose with 2 month old test results and i caught it ....and he tried to stick me on a shot every 3 weeks....... man he felt like an azz.... and i felt so so good........
 
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