Help Please, Cymbalta for me???

[BBC3]

Ok Docs, Give me a read PLEASE...

Ok, perhaps you guys can help me with this one. I have recently been dealing with a mess of issues that kinda came to a head with massive drug and alcohol abuse campaign unvealed. I am now painfully sober and attempting to deal with some issues by means other than my own self prescribed cocktail. I am currently and have been involved in TRT to the extent of 100mgs TCYP/wk. I also treat with HCG and there will probably be some Nolvadex or Arimidex involved at this point as I am starting to get concerned with the long term effects of the elevated E & E2. It is this imbalance that we are attempting to correct anyway, isin;t it?? Maybe and partially correctly described I admit.. SOOO, I am getting ready to start Cymbalta (prescribed by Psyc.). I Have recently been (briefly and over) on M.S. Lamictal, and now ending Seroquel. The lamicatal was great anti-dipressant, however, the histamine reaction (sinus drip, athsma like lungs) was unbarable. NEXT, I thought I would like Seroquel, but it just knocked me out too long. I love to sleep, just not 18 hours a day (300mg)/day. The "system shutdown" caused by the Seroquel completely unacceptable. Nor did I find the Seroquel to be a good antidepressant. I also currently have 300mg Bupropion in the bag as well. Doc is also considering Abilify. Not sure if that would replace Burpopion or adjunct to it. EIther way, the Bupropion has absolutely freed me from a 150mg/day nicotine habit. BACK to the Cymbalta. I used to take about 30mgs /day hydrocodone Apap for hip/arthritis. I am in a lot of pain right now without. I basically told the doc today that I am sick of suffering in pain and about to start self medicating again, "so come up with the hydro or else", so to speak. This is when he told me about the Cymbalta. I am excited to hear that it may combat pain. We will see. If they are claiming pain reduction due to increased nor-epinephine I can tell you it is not going to cut it. I used to eat 90-120mgs Adderall /day when working. I know all about nor-epinephrine!! thinkning about it I was in a lot less regular pain. It did not, however, stop the "bad" days. Long & short is that I will be prescribed the following:
- 300mg Welbutrin xl
- 10mg Abilify ( I am guessing he will take me off the Wellbutrin if Abilify works and blow it up to 15mgs. Doc is "not a multi-med advocate".
- 60mgs Cymbalta.
- 100mgs cypionate/week
- possible arimidex protocal, maybe nolva
- HCG 1000-2500iu doses every 10 days depending...
- There may just be Hydrocodone back on the menu as I do not believe it ever did anything but good for me. I don't want to discuss addiction. I am not out on a street corner whoring myself to get more. I am simply in a pissed off amount of pain. There have been too many independent studies proving NO PHYSICAL Addictive properties. This is not a "six-bond" codone (the devil). We are talking hydrocodone only. there is a big difference!!! We actually know how this one works.. (Someone please tell me if the is a legitimate reason not to take the stuff.??????)

The primary reason for this post was to determine if the new psych. meds will interact with hormone protocal. I keep these docs separate due to the obvious contraindications and current stigmas associated with both. The Cymbalta sounds like a potentially really good drug for me, I just noticed a LOT of interaction info on the prescribing docs and it has me concerned.

This is obviously a very tangled web brought forth, however, any help from THOSE FAMILIAR WITH MY SITUATION OR MEDICALLY INCLINED would be openly appreciated. I am not looking for a fight on this one, just some good advice.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dopamineloveaffair]

Ok Docs, Give me a read PLEASE...

Ok, perhaps you guys can help me with this one. I have recently been dealing with a mess of issues that kinda came to a head with massive drug and alcohol abuse campaign unvealed. I am now painfully sober and attempting to deal with some issues by means other than my own self prescribed cocktail. I am currently and have been involved in TRT to the extent of 100mgs TCYP/wk. I also treat with HCG and there will probably be some Nolvadex or Arimidex involved at this point as I am starting to get concerned with the long term effects of the elevated E & E2. It is this imbalance that we are attempting to correct anyway, isin;t it?? Maybe and partially correctly described I admit.. SOOO, I am getting ready to start Cymbalta (prescribed by Psyc.). I Have recently been (briefly and over) on M.S. Lamictal, and now ending Seroquel. The lamicatal was great anti-dipressant, however, the histamine reaction (sinus drip, athsma like lungs) was unbarable. NEXT, I thought I would like Seroquel, but it just knocked me out too long. I love to sleep, just not 18 hours a day (300mg)/day. The "system shutdown" caused by the Seroquel completely unacceptable. Nor did I find the Seroquel to be a good antidepressant. I also currently have 300mg Bupropion in the bag as well. Doc is also considering Abilify. Not sure if that would replace Burpopion or adjunct to it. EIther way, the Bupropion has absolutely freed me from a 150mg/day nicotine habit. BACK to the Cymbalta. I used to take about 30mgs /day hydrocodone Apap for hip/arthritis. I am in a lot of pain right now without. I basically told the doc today that I am sick of suffering in pain and about to start self medicating again, "so come up with the hydro or else", so to speak. This is when he told me about the Cymbalta. I am excited to hear that it may combat pain. We will see. If they are claiming pain reduction due to increased nor-epinephine I can tell you it is not going to cut it. I used to eat 90-120mgs Adderall /day when working. I know all about nor-epinephrine!! thinkning about it I was in a lot less regular pain. It did not, however, stop the "bad" days. Long & short is that I will be prescribed the following:
- 300mg Welbutrin xl
- 10mg Abilify ( I am guessing he will take me off the Wellbutrin if Abilify works and blow it up to 15mgs. Doc is "not a multi-med advocate".
- 60mgs Cymbalta.
- 100mgs cypionate/week
- possible arimidex protocal, maybe nolva
- HCG 1000-2500iu doses every 10 days depending...
- There may just be Hydrocodone back on the menu as I do not believe it ever did anything but good for me. I don't want to discuss addiction. I am not out on a street corner whoring myself to get more. I am simply in a pissed off amount of pain. There have been too many independent studies proving NO PHYSICAL Addictive properties. This is not a "six-bond" codone (the devil). We are talking hydrocodone only. there is a big difference!!! We actually know how this one works.. (Someone please tell me if the is a legitimate reason not to take the stuff.??????)

The primary reason for this post was to determine if the new psych. meds will interact with hormone protocal. I keep these docs separate due to the obvious contraindications and current stigmas associated with both. The Cymbalta sounds like a potentially really good drug for me, I just noticed a LOT of interaction info on the prescribing docs and it has me concerned.

This is obviously a very tangled web brought forth, however, any help from THOSE FAMILIAR WITH MY SITUATION OR MEDICALLY INCLINED would be openly appreciated. I am not looking for a fight on this one, just some good advice.

Thanks in advance.

Hi BBC3,

It's hard to give advice without knowing your primary diagnosis. Based on the meds you've tried already I'm guessing you have bipolar? Since you are on antidepressant meds as well I'm figuring that depression is pretty dominant as well.

I'm currently on 450mg Wellbutrin XL per day alongside 2.5mg Abilify, for reoccurant seasonal depression (winter and summer). It's probably more on the bipolar spectrun since it's cyclical in nature. I go from depression to "normal" back to depressed again, etc...

Abilify is a great addition to an antidepressant for treatment resistant cases. For depression Abilify is generally used at dosages between 1mg and 15mg. For bipolar and schizophrenia 15mg-30mg.

It's important to get your estradiol levels evened out. With that much HCG, you'll definitely have problems with it.

Since testosterone tends to be dopaminergic I would think it would compliment Wellbutrin and Abilify (partial agonist) as they both act on dopamine positively as well.

Tramadol is supposed to be a very effective pain killer/antidepressant. Have you tried going down that avenue? I've seen some amazing reviews on it, if one can keep the addiction potential under control.

 

[JanSz]

Hi BBC3,
I feel your pain and only help that I can offer is in a way of TRT.
I worked out my version and I hope that it should work for you too.
Before I was able to get my TRT going I was a mess, not only ED but major depression and other psychological issue.
Had I went to see shrinks I would be able to come up with nice names for my problems and a list of medications.
I was able to do without shrinks.
I hope that if you would keep my parameters for 6-9 mnths that hopefully would ease some of your psychological problems. ED was rather quick to solve, if only half way, for psychological mill stone it took almost a year to get rid off.

Using
testosterone, either thransdermals or (frequent) T shots, Arimidex=LiquiDex, Cortef, Armour Thyroid, DHEA pills get you blood tested and shoot for these:

Test and verify, I set up for my self list of tests.
My whole list, that I do once a year or less, is on post #44, between blue lines, here:
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

I also have a set of goals, for those goals I need much shorter list of blood tests.
I test at Quest Diagnostics, 2-3x/year.

29 T3, Free
42 DHEA sulfate
46 Progesterone, LC/MS/MS - (17183X)
47 Pregnenolone, LC/MS/MS (31493X)
48 Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
49 Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
50 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS) Code: 14966X
51 Dihydrotestosterone (204X)

============================================================
My own Goals
DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL------------------major player, 95% time overlooked
Progesterone(0.9-1.2)ng/mL
Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL)
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive(25-29)pg/mL
Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
BATest(342, 460-575)ng/dL------------stay around 342 if you need AI to control E2
DHT(60-90)ng/dL
FreeT3~400pg/dL
Body temperature (97.8 - 98.2F) (36.56 - 36.78C); (36.6-37C)(97.9-98.6F)

.
.

 

[Dopamineloveaffair]

As Dr. Marianco can attest to... sometimes getting your hormones in check will clear up any remaining health problems, however... some people have further chemical abnormalites where further psychotropic meds are needed.

Of course it's always better to go after the root of the problem first. Hormones are natural, antidepressants are not. It really depends where the dysfunction lies.

At one point I thought nutrition, supplementation, and hormones could fix any mood, motivation, sexual, fatigue issues. I've since changed my stance and realized some people do need more.

 

[BBC3]

Hello Dopamine lover,

Thanks for the response. I alway chuckle when I see your handle as I too understand the value of a good blast of dopamine. I mean, pour it on me till I am temp paralyzed in my chair and quivering with goodness!!!! Nice Name.
You are pretty much right on with every assumption we are on the page together. Yes I was diagnosed bopolar last November after a drunken exploit that had catipulted me to new highs in my already legendary pursuit of idiocy..... I messed around with paxil and prozac up till then and they did some good things for me (bang for the side effect). But now I have found newer and better and excited. I never realized how right wellbutrin was for me. I was always scared of the side effects on the box, primarily seizure rate. What I did not know was that my 150mg / day nicotine habit already had me in shape to handle probably a 900mg/ day dose. You know I tried it, of course you are the same. Compulsion rules this territory does it not?? Just kinda seemd to lock me up and piss me off at higher doses. BUT 450 is right for me considering the nicotine dose I have kicked with this great stuff. The type one bilpolar diagnosis will probably be refuted to to temp affect and appealed to type 2 soon. The "depressed to normal to depressed is me as well" Bingo!!! THis is the depressed without manic is it not?? Obviously as a type I they are afraid to continue with the paxil, etc, as contraindicated. I am slowly convicing everyone that I am only depressed and proactively going to extremes to cure the boredom and depression that comes with it. I call it "my Ladder" and once I take a step up, the lower rung will not do. This does not bode well at a blackjack table let me tell you!!!
Regarding the Seroquel all I can say is that stuff is nice if you want to settle into a come for the rest of your life. Its highly physically and mentally addictive and it shuts down just about everything, I was not even aware of the term adregenic antagonist mean till i researched today. Basically a MEGA beta blocker. I mean I was only on that for 2 weeks and then 2 days off and nearly had a high blood pressure attack on the rebound. I mean this is ugly stuff!! The way I understand it resperdol, Zyprexa, they are pretty much the same.. These do not work for me. I wanted to try the Abilify but I have also just realized that it is another anti-psychotic, just with a pretty face. Its kinda scary that they are going so publically mainstream with the ads to get the public on this type of drug. I believe they are simply attempting to zombitize the masses in order to deal with the end of this roman empire. Ok i digress....... Abilify does appear to have a new twist on antipsychotics as it does involve dopamine. I will try it but I can not stand for the system shut down like the other anti-psychs.. We are talking a heart attach waiting to happen.. I am excited about the Cymbalta as this looks like a new beast with unknown real potential. I am going to give it a real try. But if the pain killing effects are comming from a high level of nor-epinephrine, I dont think its giong to cut it. ON the 120 mg avg dose of Adderall I was taking, NOW THATS nor-ep!!! We are talking to the tune of no hard-on's in site, and semenal components running down your leg after every urintation. My hips still hurt a little then ever with the hydrocodone stack. As for the Ultram (tramadol), this is a nice anagiesic stronger than tylenol but I have found the effectiveness lacking. Probably both due to my pain levels so high, and the fact the I was already treating with hydrocodone with is probably the stronger. Believe it on not, hydro codone does not hold a candle to advil/alieve for bone pain, its just that even asprin gives me the shits. You dont even want to know what a swollen asshole looks like after a week on advil. Not to mention this simply cannot be good for the circulatory system, period. I am not going to go on my hydro-rant right now. But I could kick the bastards ass that caused this problem... I am not defending Oxycodone as it is truely as physically addictive as any substance I have ever ingested. I know better than to mess with that. I would be dead with a pin in my are in 2 months time.!! Weeewh.....
Regarding the hormones, I was pretty leveled out when I had my freakout (hormone-wise). I was on about 70ms avg cypionate /week and had the E2 in pretty good control going on about my 17th straight week succeeding with heavy zinc protocal. The depression is real... Just like everyone elses (taxes, death, divorce, old age, etc) I cant stand the TV lies like depression is caused by some kind a mysterious infection that can be cured with a pill. Tell the fucking truth. Life can suck sometimes, and when it does, try our drugs as they can really buzz you out of mental anguish. Damn, maybe I'll submit that Idea to Lilly. They might sell a fortune...

Thanks for the reply....

Hi BBC3,

It's hard to give advice without knowing your primary diagnosis. Based on the meds you've tried already I'm guessing you have bipolar? Since you are on antidepressant meds as well I'm figuring that depression is pretty dominant as well.

I'm currently on 450mg Wellbutrin XL per day alongside 2.5mg Abilify, for reoccurant seasonal depression (winter and summer). It's probably more on the bipolar spectrun since it's cyclical in nature. I go from depression to "normal" back to depressed again, etc...

Abilify is a great addition to an antidepressant for treatment resistant cases. For depression Abilify is generally used at dosages between 1mg and 15mg. For bipolar and schizophrenia 15mg-30mg.

It's important to get your estradiol levels evened out. With that much HCG, you'll definitely have problems with it.

Since testosterone tends to be dopaminergic I would think it would compliment Wellbutrin and Abilify (partial agonist) as they both act on dopamine positively as well.

Tramadol is supposed to be a very effective pain killer/antidepressant. Have you tried going down that avenue? I've seen some amazing reviews on it, if one can keep the addiction potential under control.

 

[BBC3]

As Dr. Marianco can attest to... sometimes getting your hormones in check will clear up any remaining health problems, however... some people have further chemical abnormalites where further psychotropic meds are needed.

Of course it's always better to go after the root of the problem first. Hormones are natural, antidepressants are not. It really depends where the dysfunction lies.

At one point I thought nutrition, supplementation, and hormones could fix any mood, motivation, sexual, fatigue issues. I've since changed my stance and realized some people do need more.

Yes, Again my underlying issue is real depression. HOwever, I am starting to wonder about estrogen and controlling better. I am now starting to consider factors like, just because test levels are neutralizing some of the physically realized estrogenic side effects, does not mean that that high level of test is not driving me nuts and killing my body. I just am not yet ready to again admit that moderation is the key, which I am sure applies here are well. Realistically I probably need to be dosing 60-70 mgs test a week attempting to mimic a natural level of about 650-750 ng/dl and give some more thought to controlling aromatizaiton. I created my own problems through over eating and drinking. I got fat, consumed alcohol, and probably screwed up both my pituitary gland and my testies in a physical sense due to drug and alcohol abuse. To itterate how bad it got last year, I was actually starting to lisp prior to going to work last fall. this reversed quickly by necessity of do or die. But I took it to the limit. the hormonal imbalance was due to ten year of liberal drinking habit. The lisping was due to 3-4 years and drinking 6 a day and finally that last year a 12-18 day with some serious binge-passout days included. It was ugly and I was Nasty!!! So yes I guess the problems are systemwide and symptomatic on many levels. I Appreaciate the thought.....

 

[BBC3]

The only thing I can say for sure is that we run exactly the same body temp. However, that did change briefly for me on the seroquel. Jeeze they are not shitting when they talk about temperature regulation problems. I normally have to have 69-70 degrees in the house Or i notice and uncomfortable. this stuff had me cold mostly. I could sit there and not know it was 75 in the house. I even complained to my wife about the ceiling fans.!!! Anyway I am off that crap now. I am not planning to big drug approach to this thing, at least not from the psychiatrists office. I will keep a mild antidipressant in play and that will probably be it. Hormonally speaking I am appreaciating your information here more and more every day. I am looking forward to getting over to see your recommended blood work. I am going in next week and demanding everything I can. I need some new benchmarks and a status update so to speak. I can also tell you that I have not know good steady wood for 3-4 years, or since I was 34. The sadest part of all is that you actuall come to live with it without complaint to a degree. I will tell you that it nearly destryed my marrage. Its was insane. I was running around jacked on Adderall to boot. So you can imagine, The amphetamines "Feel" like a fix. But oh mama. I was horney as hell. I was having a constant orgasm to the point that i could not even tell a defference when i did climax sexually. Ejaculating almost became as common a feeling in my mind a urinating. Hell for that matter I have semen running down my leg after almost every urination!! But the biggest mindbreaker was that I could not even get it up due to my pre-existing position with health topped off by the nor-epinephrine blast from the adderall making it impossible to get it hard!!! Mind breaker!!!!! I was blaming my wife. I had it in my mind that I was not getting enough sex and it was her fault for not stimulating or wanting me. Now this one nearly caused the end of all things, fights, alcohol inflamed this of course, I went to jail from a hospital I was sent to on an overdose. I was actually so insane that they had me arrested in a hospital. I still think I should have a good suit over this one. I mean shit, isnt that why I was admitted?? ENough of that before I start transferring onto them again..... Regarding thyroid, I am in the ballpark but as you could guess I am sure I am "Slightly" hypo. I have a suspicion that these figures mean a whole lot with very little movement.!! I am just getting into that. I also believe DHEA is greatly overlooked. These things are so hard to control. You jsut dont know how that one is going to break down and what supplementing is going to get you. Plus I believe that this is one that changes with the weather so to speak. Different response based on soo many factors. !! Regarding transdermals, these are obviously a great way to level out testosterone administration and hence avoid agitating the old E2 monster. I simply have not gone there yet. It does seem like a large amount of work, and I am somewhat concerned with the local application of creams and gels. I mean the last thing I want is a carpet on one side of my shoulder, or a taint that has more have on it than my pelvic region. [)] I know that last sentence seems somewhat immature, but I am, and I am try to think of ways to keep my wife;s tounge on my taint for as long and as many times as I can during the rest of my life. I sure I will oventually wind up toughing it out, rubbing it on, and resorting to a laser treatment if a tounge on may ass is that damn important. I would like to get back with you on this post bloodwork and let you know which tests I pulled off and what the results are. I am sure you could provide some good insight base on all the numbers you have seen in your time and maybe help me relate them. If you will that is..


PS OK I just looked over there. that is some serious freaking test data. I dont know what I can get. I am going to have to spend a little time over there and get back with questions.... mmmmh.!!!!

Hi BBC3,
I feel your pain and only help that I can offer is in a way of TRT.
I worked out my version and I hope that it should work for you too.
Before I was able to get my TRT going I was a mess, not only ED but major depression and other psychological issue.
Had I went to see shrinks I would be able to come up with nice names for my problems and a list of medications.
I was able to do without shrinks.
I hope that if you would keep my parameters for 6-9 mnths that hopefully would ease some of your psychological problems. ED was rather quick to solve, if only half way, for psychological mill stone it took almost a year to get rid off.

Using
testosterone, either thransdermals or (frequent) T shots, Arimidex=LiquiDex, Cortef, Armour Thyroid, DHEA pills get you blood tested and shoot for these:

Test and verify, I set up for my self list of tests.
My whole list, that I do once a year or less, is on post #44, between blue lines, here:
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

I also have a set of goals, for those goals I need much shorter list of blood tests.
I test at Quest Diagnostics, 2-3x/year.

29 T3, Free
42 DHEA sulfate
46 Progesterone, LC/MS/MS - (17183X)
47 Pregnenolone, LC/MS/MS (31493X)
48 Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
49 Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
50 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS) Code: 14966X
51 Dihydrotestosterone (204X)

============================================================
My own Goals
DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL------------------major player, 95% time overlooked
Progesterone(0.9-1.2)ng/mL
Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL)
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive(25-29)pg/mL
Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
BATest(342, 460-575)ng/dL------------stay around 342 if you need AI to control E2
DHT(60-90)ng/dL
FreeT3~400pg/dL
Body temperature (97.8 - 98.2F) (36.56 - 36.78C); (36.6-37C)(97.9-98.6F)

.
.