Help with my cycle please

[superman15]

whats up bros, i need a little help on my first cycle. I am wanting to do a mass cycle. here are my stats:

19 years old ( yea i know im young, im going to take them)
215 lbs
6'3
wanting to gain as much muscle as possible (mass cycle)

i cant gain any more weight and i am eating as much food as i have time for.
Due to talking to joe schmoe i have decided to take EQ instead of Deca because im wanting to keep as much muscle mass as possible without all that useless water weight. I am taking in:

310 grams of protein a day
330 grams of carbohydrates
not sure about the fat intake, i know its high though(dont worry my metabolism is high)
3500-4500 calories a day

any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

 

[joe shmoe]

me and superman have settled what ever friction there was between us. i hope some of you will join in and voice your opinions and help him run a good cycle.

superman, looking at your diet, you need to consume more carbs....especially since you have such a fast metabolism. get yourself a good weight gainer shake. 2 N-Large, or N-2 Large...something like that...is a good quality shake. it'll help you with bumping up your calories.

as for the cycle, the basic newbie cycle will do you good:

weeks 1-2: test enanthate @ 1000mg/wk
weeks 1-2: EQ @ 800mg/wk(you double the dose for the first 2 weeks as a frontload so you can start seeing gains quicker.)
weeks 3-12: test enanthate @ 500mg/wk
weeks 3-10: EQ @ 400mg/wk (this will allow time for the EQ to clear, so that both the test and the EQ will clear out of your system about the same time)

mix 250mg of test and 200mg of EQ into a syringe and shoot. do this 2x a week.

get some arimidex/liquidex. use it ED @ .25mg. this will help keep off the bloat and fight gyno.

get some nolva just incase the arimi doesnt do the job on the gyno.

you'll need hCG and either more nolva or clomid for recovery.

have a nice day

 

[nick e. guns]

So......What is your question? (Protein is too low BTW. If you are looking to do a mass cycle you should up it to about 400 grams per day. If you don't have time to eat that much, then you don't have time to take aas.)

 

[Neodavid]

At 19 you will do what your going to do, but at 6'3'' 215, you haven't even lifted weights yet man, you are robbing your body of real natural growth, upseting the natural cycle at youth out of impatience and laziness.

If you can't put in 5 years of real lifting naturally, what makes you think steroids are the answer?

Talk about your workout... what have you lifted, what's your routine, go to the training forum, but anyone who sells to you at 19 is doing you a serious disservice.

Have you lifted solidly for a few years? What was your workout?

You didn't mention lifting while on juice, so no offense, but do you realize you need to lift?

At your age, you can grow like CRAZY, if you just get to the gym and have a half good workout. DUDE!!!

Change your name to superchump if you are going to use juice at your age and your lack of experience in the gym. I'm 5'10 and got to 190 weight (low BF) naturally. YOU can get another 30lbs on you naturally, before you try juice. Superman? You haven't even made it to Clark KENT yet...

I mean no disrespect, and you can't comprehend where a 40+ year old guy is coming from.

YOU DON'T NEED THEM!!! And if you TAKE them, you will HURT YOUR LIFE.

You remind me of the old butterfly story, where if you help a butterfly out of it's caccoon rather than let it struggle, it dies from weakness. If you take juice without the effort of actual gym time, serious gym time, you are setting yourself up to cheat and be lazy and take shortcuts for the rest of your life. You will die young, out of sheer stupidity.

GO TO THE GYM AND LIFT, DON'T HURT YOURSELF LIKE THIS.

My first rant... as a Dad of a kid your age, I have to do it... Can't believe what I'm hearing.

I'll be awaiting my flames. Probably deserve it, but couldn't help myself.

whats up bros, i need a little help on my first cycle. I am wanting to do a mass cycle. here are my stats:

19 years old ( yea i know im young, im going to take them)
215 lbs
6'3
wanting to gain as much muscle as possible (mass cycle)

i cant gain any more weight and i am eating as much food as i have time for.
Due to talking to joe schmoe i have decided to take EQ instead of Deca because im wanting to keep as much muscle mass as possible without all that useless water weight. I am taking in:

310 grams of protein a day
330 grams of carbohydrates
not sure about the fat intake, i know its high though(dont worry my metabolism is high)
3500-4500 calories a day

any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

 

[nick e. guns]

No flame here Neo...your post is a little harsh but very true. Unfortunately, superman has been on here for the past month telling everyone that he doesn't care if it ruins his health because he is going to do it anyway. Not smart but if he is going to do it we can at least point him in the right direction.

 

[Dart]

...has been on here for the past month telling everyone that he doesn't care if it ruins his health because he is going to do it anyway. Not smart but if he is going to do it we can at least point him in the right direction.

Oh cool! Then add 200mg of ABombs ed to Joe's cycle, and a TON of GH while you're at it.
.

 

[superman15]

honestly after talking to my neighbor who seems to be a doctor, he said that it doesnt matter what age you are, steroids are steroids and they are going to do just about the same thing to everybody, you might not have some of the sides.
I already posted in my post that i know im young , but im still taking the juice, so for those of you who didnt help me out with my cycle should just keep shut. because this post is about my cycle, not about guys that are taking aas that are under 200 lbs trying to tell me what to do and what not to do. The weight that i do have on the frame that i have makes me look quite big. Everyone is thinking i can get to 230 or so naturally with no problem. but my frame isnt big enough to really hold that much naturally. So please just help me out, instead of flaming me. thanks

special thanks to Joe,

 

[superman15]

BTW my bodyfat is 7%

 

[superman15]

What brands seem to be good quality brands for test enthate and EQ.

Is jet Li a good deal?

 

[nick e. guns]

Well superman, it's a good thing you spoke to your neighbor who "seems"(?) to be a doctor, because they know everything about steroid use (please notice the blatant sarcasm here).

That aside...What joe and Karch have layed out are equally good first cycles and you will get outstanding and probably very similar results from either. Make sure you have a good source to get your AAS from, I would look for someone here in the classifieds (hint:look for the Surfing With The Alien avatar, sorry if that is before your time). Get that protein intake up there around 400-450 grams per day. It sounds like a lot and it is, but it will make a huge difference in the gains you make. Don't skimp on the anti e's and recovery meds. As someone else mentioned in a thread they are sometimes more expensive and difficult to acquire, but will make sure you don't lose much in the way of gains post cycle. That said, good luck with your cycle and keep us posted on your progress.

And yes, joe is very helpful. He actually helped me the most with my first cycle plans (and he posts some good porn once in a while too, minus that fetish crap.)

 

[Neodavid]

I got to 190 naturally. I lifted since 17, I'm now 44. I know my limits, have tried everything under the sun, so I now use juice, because I have put in the time, and my body can't go any farther without it.

Medical charts show about 7 lbs per inch of height, so if you are 5 inches taller than me, that means to look the same as me, you would have to weigh 235lbs (although the big guys always win the show, you know what I mean).

Since I have horrible genetics, my guess is you could go considerably higher than that naturally.

This is a forum, and I understand you want me to 'shut up' and keep to myself, but this is a forum, which by definition is a place to speak your mind on a subject, and we are all friends, even you and me. We just be talking.

I didn't diss you, I am only giving you my feelings and reasoning for being against someone as young as you (who apparently hasn't put in 5 years of gym time) being on juice. It's not personal in any way. You should know both sides of a subject, everything you can learn, and this is part of it. Hearing me will help you make your decision more solid, if it's the right decision.

Physically you are still growing. My son grew two more inches after 19 (now 21). He's 6' 5'' at 300lbs.

No doctor is going to recomend you interrupt the normal growth cycle with steroids.

I appreciate your sincerity and honesty, really I do. You are honest enough to say your neighbor 'seems to be a doctor', and says such and such.

Now can I point out it is a human failing to listen to those who are saying what we want to hear? Seems to be a doctor...

There are stickies with great cycles on them above, but you've started several threads, and talked to people about helping you set up a cycle... Why the coninuing saga? Why not grab phreezers cycle and go with it?

Questions would make sense, but having a bunch of guys help you set up a cycle, over and over again, indicates hesitency and fear, and needing to be mothered through this.

Which to me means, you are too young psychologically, besides physically.

Ironically saying that to anyone will only make them more determined, but honestly that's what I'm pushing for, for you to make up your mind and either get back in the nest, or jump out and start flapping.

I asked you about gym time, no response. I asked you about your workout, no response. I asked you about all kinds of things, but the only thing you could say back was you didn't want to hear it. In my mind that's another sign of being too young.

If you had told me you've been lifting seriously for 4 years, okay, I'd be impressed, and of a different mindset. I'd believe you were dedicated enough and had earned some stripes. There are prodigies out there, guys with guts who put in the work... have you? It's an honest question.

So far it just sounds to me like you just want to graduate without doing the work. Shortcuts and not putting in the effort... THAT is what I'm against most of all.

How much time have you personally put in the gym, and what makes you think you will be consistent while on juice? I'm concerned you think juice is the answer. It's not. Juice helps you IF you train consistently. It's crap if you don't.

On the more fun side, since you said you don't want advice from someone under 200 (I'm over 200 now, that was natural), let me explain to you that this 5' 10'' body can kick my 300lbs sons ass. (grin) Don't judge someone's advice by weight... Speed, experience, and plain old nasty hardness, go a long long way.

I just want to let you know how it works. If you take shortcuts, you will be mentally weak, always looking for a quick fix, a faster way, and you end up cheating yourself of personal development, of intestinal fortitude.

If you've spent 4 or 5 years of hard time in the gym, if you've built up a great physique without juice, I'm behind you though. I don't know cause you haven't answered those questions (and certainly don't have to).

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for you. If I wasn't I'd flame you and leave it alone.

Tell us a little of what you've done that makes you think you will succeed with the extra help of juice.

I know we don't know each other, but I'm the kind of guy that is all on your side, even enough to piss you off by telling you the part you aren't paying attention to. This is all about heart, all about getting something done, going past what you can do naturally. It's just my belief that you NEED to do it natural first, as part of a healthy physical and psychological lifestyle.

I'm all for you man.

honestly after talking to my neighbor who seems to be a doctor, he said that it doesnt matter what age you are, steroids are steroids and they are going to do just about the same thing to everybody, you might not have some of the sides.
I already posted in my post that i know im young , but im still taking the juice, so for those of you who didnt help me out with my cycle should just keep shut. because this post is about my cycle, not about guys that are taking aas that are under 200 lbs trying to tell me what to do and what not to do. The weight that i do have on the frame that i have makes me look quite big. Everyone is thinking i can get to 230 or so naturally with no problem. but my frame isnt big enough to really hold that much naturally. So please just help me out, instead of flaming me. thanks

special thanks to Joe,

 

[eleven11]

Here's what I'd do diet wise

total carbs = 4000
325grams of protein thats your BW x 1.5. which comes to 1300 cals
475grams of carbs (Limit the sugar ) 1900 cals
88 grams of good fat 800 cals
4000 cals
As your body weight goes up adjust your protein intake. bodywieght x 15
Meals replacement shakes are the only way for me to get the cals I need. I'll also add raw oatmeal and flax seed oil in them to get the ratios up to where I need them.
Also spread these meals out to 5-6 meals a day then maybe after your body adjust to might be able to increase your total cals IF you want.
I don't believe excess cals builds muscle. Nutrients do.............11

 

[superman15]

i appreciate your help and everything, its just i honestly have been working out in a gym for 6 years. 4 years was actually when i browsed around on the internet and got on a forum called abcbodybuilding.com that had diet plans and the head of that website helped me put together a good solid diet like ive shown you on this post.(the other 2 years i never knew about haveing to eat alot to grow). When i started working out seriously for the 4 years, i weighed 165 lbs. I stayed extremely steady on diet and excercise. very rarely do i miss a day. I workout 3 times a week. Here is what one of my workouts usually consists of. keep in mind that i change it up every week.

Monday:Chest, Shoulders, Triceps

chest:
Flat bench 4 sets to failure
flat dumbell flys 2 sets
incline bench 4 sets to failure
incline dumbell flys 2 sets

shoulders:
shoulder press 4 sets to failure
dumbell shrugs 4 sets to failure
dumbell side laterals 3 sets to failure

Triceps:
scull crushers 5-6 sets to failure


Wednesday: Back, biceps, forearms

Back:
6 sets of pullups, 3 wide grip, 3 close grip with palms facing me. On the last set of each i get a spotter to hold my legs so i can get 5 strict reps with a 5 second negative on each rep.

Superset cable rows and bent over laterals 3 sets to failure on each.

Biceps:

4 sets of seated and incline curls(adding up to 8 sets). On first 3 sets get heavy weight that is just enough to almost get failure at 6 reps. Then on the last set of each excercise get 10 reps no matter what you have to do, make sure you get to failure first though.

Preacher curls 3 sets

Forearms:

behind the back forearms curls 4 sets to failure

get a bar with a rope attached to it(sorry i dont know what the exact name for this is) and you put a weight on the end of the rope and you twist it up and down with your forearms. I go until i cant move my forearms anymore. i get 4 sets of this.

Legs:

squats 4 sets
leg extension 3 double drop sets
leg curls 4 sets to failure
standing calf machine 5-6 sets to failure and after failure on 3 of the sets i try to move my calves up and down for 30 seconds.(This almost makes ya wanna cry, haha, but it feels so good at the same time.)


This is a basic routine for me. I change it up every single week so my muscles dont get used to a certain excercise. On all of these i hit failure around 6-10 reps. if you have any more questions that i need to answer please feel free to ask. Hey dude sorry i didnt answer your question. I have been doing these kind of workouts for 4 years. I have also experimented with just about every excercise. Thanks.

 

[nick e. guns]

Once again superman, no flame but that routine will suck for mass. Get back to basics here. Drop all the cables and isolation movements. Stick with rows, presses, squats, deadlifts, etc. Lift big to get big. Cliche I know, but its true. I see that you have some good exercises in there, but you also added in a lot of poor choices IMHO. There are some great routines over in the training forum tha will take your results up a notch. Check them out. I know its a pain in the ass to listen to all the criticism, but if you follow all this advice, there is no reason that you couldn't add 30 lbs.

 

[Neodavid]

I can respect that man, that's a lot better than what most 19 year olds have done. Maybe you do have the juice to juice.

We all know some guys are genetic freaks who can grow on anything, but most of us really do need the basic mass stuff. Heavy, multiple joint movements...

For instance, I trained 10 years just upper body, but when I added squats, I got much bigger and stronger in my upper body too...

If you get on juice or not, have you tried lowering your sets and kinds of exercises, and focused on heavy weights, low reps (around 6, depends on exercise... for squats I do better on higher reps for some reason).

Not all year round, in fact if you really want a weird way to lift, take a look at HST training: http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

I'm on juice now, and only on week 2 of HST, but I did grow an eighth of an inch so far, which is a lot better than I was doing before.

There are guys here with all kinds of prejudices about what works, because something worked for them, and they think that must be how everyone should train. I thought HST was nutty sounding, but after I read the science, and because I was injured (first 2 weeks are very high rep, so that helps me heal), I said okay, lets try it.

I tried Mike Mentzers heavy duty HIT training. That worked to a point. I tried strength training, got even stronger, but injured myself. Then I went for volume... everything helped, a bit, but nothing KEPT me growing. HST does seem to have a valid basis, and a lot of guys on the board here swear by it. The idea is to KEEP you growing...

You gotta do what you gotta do, and I'm all for personal freedom, but my thoughts are you haven't exhausted that young body of yours of growth. I bet you could go a lot farther natural, and THAT is something to be proud of.

I wish I was in your shoes, with my old man patience intact. I'd LOVE to train a body that huge.

Hey, how are your tendon lengths, muscle bodies, etc.? It's pretty easy to look at a guy and tell how far he is on his genetic potential. Got any pics?

Anyway, it'l take a while before you get your juice, right? Why not follow Nick's advice and stick with few but heavy lifts, or try HST in the mean time?

Good luck whatever you do man.

i appreciate your help and everything, its just i honestly have been working out in a gym for 6 yearsd at the same time.)

(snip)

This is a basic routine for me. I change it up every single week so my muscles dont get used to a certain excercise. On all of these i hit failure around 6-10 reps. if you have any more questions that i need to answer please feel free to ask. Hey dude sorry i didnt answer your question. I have been doing these kind of workouts for 4 years. I have also experimented with just about every excercise. Thanks.

 

[superman15]

that workout is just one of them that i do. I did compound movements for a couple months and i didnt seem to get anything out of it. My body is very unique, haha, Ill see if i cant get any pictures on here. You name it, ive done it. I know a lot about nutrition and excercise, thats how i have got to 215, but nothing is working for me now.

 

[superman15]

ill try the hst training. it looks interesting.

 

[Neodavid]

I know that story, did it for 0ver 10 years... frustrating.

Have you tried taking some time off, a week or two?


My advice for you is do the SIMPLEST CHEAPEST SAFEST cycle around.

Get some sust, or any test with a short and long acting agent, and do 3 weeks of 1 cc (usually 250 per ml), see how your body responds (sore nipples, etc), and if no sideeffects, jump to 2 cc's (1 cc 2x a week).

If you have any sides, start taking Novla. Make sure you have some before you start. You don't want titties at 19. They don't go away.

There are ALL kinds of fancy stacks and what not, but you need simple and safe. Stay away from orals, you liver doesn't need the stress.

Also, for pct, HCG and clomid can both hinder you permanently if you stay on them at too high a dose for too long, so don't be creative or experiment.

IF that safe and easy cycle goes well for you and you grow like a monster, use one of phreezers more complicated stack cycles.

The first time you use juice, you will respond insanely. At least I did.

Slow and easy is the way to go. Please be careful, that body is all you got.

that workout is just one of them that i do. I did compound movements for a couple months and i didnt seem to get anything out of it. My body is very unique, haha, Ill see if i cant get any pictures on here. You name it, ive done it. I know a lot about nutrition and excercise, thats how i have got to 215, but nothing is working for me now.

 

[superman15]

would sust give me better results than a single ester test for my first cycle?

 

[Neodavid]

Fewer sides with sust. If you inject ED or EOD, guys here are reporting better gains due to more esters hitting more receptors. You can inject weekly, but some guys here report you don't make the extra gains then.

I ordered some on recomendation from a bunch of guys here who were using a few weeks ago and started raving about it.

Right now due to GB, I think, folks are pretty excited about enanthate, but that's expensive. Sust is cheap. Depends on your pocketbook.

Also, please see Phreezers cycle advice. First simple cycle is just test. (sust is fine).

would sust give me better results than a single ester test for my first cycle?