Hemoglobin Number

[malfeasance]

So for at least a decade, my hgb has been over 17, and sometimes over 19.

As many of you are aware, I have been on TRT at 100mg-125 mg a week for a couple of years now. Last time I donated blood (this year), I was over 17 . . .

Recently, I started cutting. I increased my testosterone to 430mg a week and introduced masteron at 180 a week, for about the last 6 weeks. It is funny how quickly this very small dosage increased my strength and drive in the gym.

I have also been doing cardio, mainly elliptical, but keeping my heart rate over 140 (this morning it hit 157 during the last 5 mins or so, which is funny because for my age the machine has this little chart that has the "red" scary zone starting down around 140 or so - I guess us old fellas are not supposed to push that hard).

So I donate blood for the second time this year. Keep in mind that last time it was over 17 on around 100mg a week. I was concerned that raising the dosage to 0.610 grams of steroids would increase the number so high that I could not donate. I made sure to be well hydrated prior to showing up.

Nope!

It was 15.1, a lower number than I have ever seen.

So I start reading about hgb, hct, and endurance athletes, and I discover to my surprise that endurance athletes have lower, not higher numbers, due to increased blood volume.

Even a single bout of intense exercise can expand the plasma volume by 10% within 24 h (Gillen et al., 1991). So it is common for an endurance athlete to have a hemoglobin concentration 1 g/dL or even 1.5 g/dL below "normal".

hemoglobin number and endurance athletes

This was an unexpected result, so I thought I would share it.

There is a whole lot of reading on endurance athlete "anemia" and how it is not a problem because (a) they have more red blood cells but also more blood volume, and (b) the lower number reduces the viscosity of the blood making it easier to pump, a benefit for endurance athletes.

Interesting stuff, huh?

I now wonder whether my emphasis on cardio (for health, aging and high blood pressure here) has resulted in this number decreasing lower than I have ever seen it go.

 

[DECLAN]

In my experience it's the hydration part that skews the readings. Not that it will change if you really have elevated numbers but being not well hydrated will affect your results even if you just donated blood prior to the test.

My latest bloodwork revealed that, the RBC and hematocrit are off by a small amount, i am on 100mg test cype.

While in my previous test, My testosterone read at 52 nmol but all the numbers are way below the limit. The only difference is I am well hydrated and had time to drink lots of water before the test.

 

[malfeasance]

I always go in well hydrated, so it's not that. I have been turned away while well hydrated.

 

[readalot]

T to 430mg a week and introduced masteron at 180 a week, for about the last 6 weeks. It is funny how quickly this very small dosage increased my strength and drive in the gym.

You made me laugh thinking about my next visit to ER if I tried that. Thank you.

I do cardio similar to you and recently (last six months) have stepped up from 140 to 200 mg/week of TC. Also been on aspirin for a while but added in nattokinase a couple months ago. Was expecting above 51 Hct on latest draw but came back 47. I think there is a saturation effect with androgen dose (that hepcidin paper we have all read with older vs younger men) and my conclusion on the Natto is TBD. I always pound water before draw.

Glad you found some success. How does your CNS handle that whopping dose? I don't think I could handle your small dose.

My previous luck consisted of me going into AFIB 2 weeks into my 325 mg/week experiment. But lots of contributing factors I think. Took me a while to mentally recover from that as I used to redline HR (probably too much) then after heart scare got into a dark panic phase with exercise.

That is why I hate these frontloading suggestions. If naive to higher doses my approach would be to map out the hill slowly the first ride. But I am probably a real outlier on total androgen dose tolerance.

Thanks for your post.

Long story short in my mind...our anecdotal data plus some literature points to saturation effect that older guys can exploit to run higher androgen doses with no additional increase in Hct. That is if you don't have autonomic dysfunction/sensitivity, heart defect/arrythmia, thyroid issues that would get in the way. In those cases a Hct /blood viscosity elevation would not be the major short term concern.

AFIB was no fun. Guys, get screened for heart defects, arrrythmia before you go for that big frontload or first cycle (I am sure age plays a big part as well in terms of tolerance for many).

 

[Cyp180]

How’s your hema value ?

 

[malfeasance]

How’s your hema value ?

Blood donation does not give me that, and I have not had a proper blood test recently.

On the roughly 3 to 1 scale, though (which I know is not that accurate), it would be 15.1 x 3 = 45.3

I have never been below 51 (which roughly lines up with a factor of 3, because I have also never been below 17), and, as stated above, I have been significantly higher.

 

[malfeasance]

You made me laugh thinking about my next visit to ER if I tried that. Thank you.

I do cardio similar to you and recently (last six months) have stepped up from 140 to 200 mg/week of TC. Also been on aspirin for a while but added in nattokinase a couple months ago. Was expecting above 51 Hct on latest draw but came back 47. I think there is a saturation effect with androgen dose (that hepcidin paper we have all read with older vs younger men) and my conclusion on the Natto is TBD. I always pound water before draw.

Glad you found some success. How does your CNS handle that whopping dose? I don't think I could handle your small dose.

My previous luck consisted of me going into AFIB 2 weeks into my 325 mg/week experiment. But lots of contributing factors I think. Took me a while to mentally recover from that as I used to redline HR (probably too much) then after heart scare got into a dark panic phase with exercise.

That is why I hate these frontloading suggestions. If naive to higher doses my approach would be to map out the hill slowly the first ride. But I am probably a real outlier on total androgen dose tolerance.

Thanks for your post.

Long story short in my mind...our anecdotal data plus some literature points to saturation effect that older guys can exploit to run higher androgen doses with no additional increase in Hct. That is if you don't have autonomic dysfunction/sensitivity, heart defect/arrythmia, thyroid issues that would get in the way. In those cases a Hct /blood viscosity elevation would not be the major short term concern.

AFIB was no fun. Guys, get screened for heart defects, arrrythmia before you go for that big frontload or first cycle (I am sure age plays a big part as well in terms of tolerance for many).

Your lengthy, rambling post kinda lost me. I think you are saying you had some sort of cardiac event related to steroids, maybe recently?

"I used to redline HR (probably too much)" - what does this mean? You did too much or too intense cardio, and you are blaming that for your problems? If so, I think your blame is misplaced.

As for the rest, though, as I have said, I usually have high hematocrit, but I used to (relatively recently, as in up to about two years ago) run much higher doses, especially as I did not start competing until I was an older man than most.

This 15.1 hgb result came as a pleasant surprise.

But, yeah, that is a low dose for me, and it is only test and mast, which I think explains it, although the cardio focus lately may explain it as well.

I would like to hear a little more about what happened to you in plainer English, if you could, and then hear more about your theories once I understand the issues you are addressing first.

As for how my CNS handles it, I feel great on these low doses. I think it helps, though, that I am lower bodyweight, too, and that I have been TRT only (real TRT, not the 200-250 mg a week stuff I see posted here) for a couple of years. I do not miss weighing over 250 and huffing and puffing just putting on my shoes or walking up stairs. But damn I do miss everybody looking when I walk in. Under 220 I almost look more like a normal dude now.

 

[Millard]

I now wonder whether my emphasis on cardio (for health, aging and high blood pressure here) has resulted in this number decreasing lower than I have ever seen it go.

I noticed this too. The more miles I log, the more my hematocrit goes down. And the more cardio I do, the more conscious I must be of staying well-hydrated on the road.

 

[malfeasance]

Anemia in Sports: A Narrative Review

Recent years have brought about new understandings regarding the pathogenesis of anemia in sports. From hemodilution and redistribution considered to contribute to the so-called “sports anemia” to iron deficiency caused by increased demands, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Athletes generally have lower hemoglobin concentrations than the general population, called “sports anemia”, a misnomer as it describes false anemia [2]. The decrease in hematocrit (Hct), hemoglobin (Hb), and red blood cell (RBC) count caused by endurance training is explained by an exercise-induced plasma volume expansion, which takes place within few days of intensive training

 

[BBC3]

Chiming in I have noticed a drop in my Hemoglobin over the past year. I haven't dumped any blood in about 12 weeks and I checked in around 14 last week at the uro. I recall hematocrit was surprisingly low too around 44. BOTH of those numbers are unheard of for me. I was sure it would be up around 18 because I had been keeping it around 17 at 8 week donation intervals on light TRT. Hematocrit never budges below 48. FWIW when I started donating a few years ago I was over 20 and went about 5 times in 7 weeks to get down to 14. Of course I took to extreme I'm crazy like that... A bud started after me and did the same stupid thing and both of us felt weak for a long time after. I run high genetically speaking and i definitely feel strongest around 19 on hemoglobin. The only thing that has changed for me is even more beer and pizza and still around 300lbs. It kinda has me worried about my health and of course I suspect post Covid involvement....

I do not miss weighing over 250 and huffing and puffing just putting on my shoes or walking up stairs. But damn I do miss everybody looking when I walk in.

No shit I have to do a stretching routine in the shower to get socks on... Clipping toenails is an olympic event I am just about ready to start getting pedicures...

 

[Norse13]

I always go in well hydrated, so it's not that. I have been turned away while well hydrated.

On the hydration note, I had a hemoglobin result at around 19 with just normal hydration. As it was so high, I was requested to go for second measurement next day. On top of regular hydration, I pounded 2 litre of fluids about 1.5 hours before the test on the second day. Topped up with fruit juices up to the actual test. Absolutely no difference in my hemoglobin score compared to first day.