Homemade transdermal

[Deleted member 59947]

When I mix raw testosterone base powder in pure DMSO, it dissolved instantly and it makes a great transdermal.
Problem is I need to apply twice a day.

To apply only once a day, I got some raw test propionate powder.
When I mix it in pure DMSO, some crystals remain undissolved, even after a few days and even after heating the solution.
How do I get the powder to fully dissolve?
Add alcohol?

 

[Old]

When I mix raw testosterone base powder in pure DMSO, it dissolved instantly and it makes a great transdermal.
Problem is I need to apply twice a day.

To apply only once a day, I got some raw test propionate powder.
When I mix it in pure DMSO, some crystals remain undissolved, even after a few days and even after heating the solution.
How do I get the powder to fully dissolve?
Add alcohol?

Curious, why do you need to apply it twice a day? Do you feel different otherwise?

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Curious, why do you need to apply it twice a day? Do you feel different otherwise?

Well, the half life of testosterone base is only a few hours

 

[Old]

Yes, Testosterone has a very short half-life. Sources differ but here is one where they actually castrated men and measured the rate of T reduction:

"The biological half-life of serum testosterone was from thirty to sixty minutes (mean, 45 minutes)" [ The time for serum testosterone to reach castrate level after bilateral orchiectomy or oral estrogen in the management of metastatic prostatic cancer. - PubMed - NCBI ]​

So Testosterone without ester should basically be the same. The problem is that it takes time to absorb it, whether IM or topical. So it doesn't just suddenly all go in at once. Haven't seen any actual data. Too bad someone isn't rich enough to take a T blood test every hour for a few hours so we could know.

Transdermal formulas (like AndroGel) are probably longer than just DSMO. However according to this study of one topical, half-life is still short:

"Transdermal administration allows testosterone to be continuously absorbed for 24 hours with no dose accumulations, mimicking normal circadian pattern when applied nightly. The approximate half-life is 1.3 hours and hypogonadal concentrations are achieved within 24 hours of patch removal" [ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182226/pdf/tau-05-06-834.pdf ]​

So the question comes down to the effectiveness of topical verses IM. No studies show superiority of either ... even though it would seem logical to mimic the natural circadian rhythm.
One problem is that studies focus only on the genomic effects of T (the consequence of binding the ARs). For bodybuilders, that would be the most important as well. The stimulation of ARs causes effects that can go on for hours and days afterward. So perhaps a short half-life doesn't matter. But there are also non-genomic effects where androgens alter the nervous system, vascular, etc. - these effects have nothing whatsoever to do with ARs.

In the end, for this forum and yourself, is how effective it is in reaching your goals. Does a half-dose take twice a day work better than a full-dose taken just once? Thus I ask members how they 'feel'? or how does it affect their strength/growth? Was hoping you had some feedback regarding actual use either way rather than a logical but theoretical concern to spread out the influx of T.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Yes, Testosterone has a very short half-life. Sources differ but here is one where they actually castrated men and measured the rate of T reduction:

"The biological half-life of serum testosterone was from thirty to sixty minutes (mean, 45 minutes)" [ The time for serum testosterone to reach castrate level after bilateral orchiectomy or oral estrogen in the management of metastatic prostatic cancer. - PubMed - NCBI ]​

So Testosterone without ester should basically be the same. The problem is that it takes time to absorb it, whether IM or topical. So it doesn't just suddenly all go in at once. Haven't seen any actual data. Too bad someone isn't rich enough to take a T blood test every hour for a few hours so we could know.

Transdermal formulas (like AndroGel) are probably longer than just DSMO. However according to this study of one topical, half-life is still short:

"Transdermal administration allows testosterone to be continuously absorbed for 24 hours with no dose accumulations, mimicking normal circadian pattern when applied nightly. The approximate half-life is 1.3 hours and hypogonadal concentrations are achieved within 24 hours of patch removal" [ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182226/pdf/tau-05-06-834.pdf ]​

So the question comes down to the effectiveness of topical verses IM. No studies show superiority of either ... even though it would seem logical to mimic the natural circadian rhythm.
One problem is that studies focus only on the genomic effects of T (the consequence of binding the ARs). For bodybuilders, that would be the most important as well. The stimulation of ARs causes effects that can go on for hours and days afterward. So perhaps a short half-life doesn't matter. But there are also non-genomic effects where androgens alter the nervous system, vascular, etc. - these effects have nothing whatsoever to do with ARs.

In the end, for this forum and yourself, is how effective it is in reaching your goals. Does a half-dose take twice a day work better than a full-dose taken just once? Thus I ask members how they 'feel'? or how does it affect their strength/growth? Was hoping you had some feedback regarding actual use either way rather than a logical but theoretical concern to spread out the influx of T.

Regardless of how I feel, there’s no way I’ll let my levels drop to subpar for a good chunk of the day by applying morning only

 

[Old]

Regardless of how I feel, there’s no way I’ll let my levels drop to subpar for a good chunk of the day by applying morning only

I don't know if it would cause more 'mental' effects being just once a day. Or if it would be less effective.

One theoretical benefit is that it would lessen the need to control E2. Since the ARs remain active for quite some time after the T is gone, this could be a way to 'switch the positive effects on' then let E2 crash along with T crashing. E2 also has a short half-life. This, of course, just might be a crazy idea. But it might be useful.

Perhaps I should ask you, when using it once a day, did you later 'feel' hypogonadal? (The feelings are noticeable). Or otherwise 'felt crappy' but the problem resolved when you went to twice a day?

 

[sinewave3]

When I mix raw testosterone base powder in pure DMSO, it dissolved instantly and it makes a great transdermal.
Problem is I need to apply twice a day.

To apply only once a day, I got some raw test propionate powder.
When I mix it in pure DMSO, some crystals remain undissolved, even after a few days and even after heating the solution.
How do I get the powder to fully dissolve?
Add alcohol?

Any skin irritation using pure DMSO? I have seen recipes that say 25% max in transdermal recipes.

 

[Sworder]

The smell of testogel would attract women like crazy when I used it.

I will look into their formulation later, but it had a definite noticable effect.

 

[Krampus]

EP1729778B1 - Pharmaceutical preparation containing drospirenone for application to the skin - Google Patents

"Testogel corresponds in its composition to the Androgel®: 100 g of gel testosterone 1.0 g Carbopol 980 0.90 g isopropyl myristate 0.50g 0.1 N NaOH 4.72 g Ethanol (95% w / w) 72.5 g * purified water to 100 g * Corresponding to 67 g Ethanol."

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Any skin irritation using pure DMSO? I have seen recipes that say 25% max in transdermal recipes.

Oddly enough, on forearms yes, not on scrotum.
That's 99.99% pure undiluted DMSO

 

[buck]

Well, the half life of testosterone base is only a few hours

Androgel and the other pharmaceutical products use the same Test and only apply once a day as the skin and subcutaneous layers act a s reservoir, much like an ester. It doesn't just get into the blood stream all at once and takes days to clear. If you look up the clearance time of Androgel you will see what I mean.

 

[SaneDog]

Damn I learned a lot in this thread lol.

 

[sinewave3]

When I mix raw testosterone base powder in pure DMSO, it dissolved instantly and it makes a great transdermal.
Problem is I need to apply twice a day.

To apply only once a day, I got some raw test propionate powder.
When I mix it in pure DMSO, some crystals remain undissolved, even after a few days and even after heating the solution.
How do I get the powder to fully dissolve?
Add alcohol?

I think prop is more oily than ace/base? Surprised it doesn’t dissolve well in DMSO, supposed to be a super solvent. Maybe some isopropyl myristate or some lecithin granules would help?

Soy lecithin is used in food and cosmetics to make oil and water mix, like in salad dressing.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

I think prop is more oily than ace/base? Surprised it doesn’t dissolve well in DMSO, supposed to be a super solvent. Maybe some isopropyl myristate or some lecithin granules would help?

Soy lecithin is used in food and cosmetics to make oil and water mix, like in salad dressing.

All solvents even the best have their capacity limit.
The limit seems very high with testosterone base, with prop it makes it very sludgy and doesn't dissolve well.

What do you mean prop is more oily? It's a raw powder, just like no ester

 

[Beastman]

could we make a testogel with sustpowder?

 

[Deleted member 59947]

could we make a testogel with sustpowder?

As I mentioned, esterified powders don't dissolve well in DMSO, crystals remain.
But you "could"

 

[sinewave3]

All solvents even the best have their capacity limit.
The limit seems very high with testosterone base, with prop it makes it very sludgy and doesn't dissolve well.

What do you mean prop is more oily? It's a raw powder, just like no ester

Was just thinking that the prop ester might make it more soluble in oily stuff/lecithin vs test base.

 

[sinewave3]

could we make a testogel with sustpowder?

There is a transdermal role that compounds over 500 Daltons can’t penetrate the skin, but I have read that anything much over 400 does not penetrate well at all.


The 500 Dalton rule for the skin penetration of chemical compounds and drugs. - PubMed - NCBI

Test base and the shorter esters in sustanon should be fine, but I think the decanoate will be too big and not absorb. If you look up the weights of each ester you should be able to tell.

 

[Beastman]

Love the Feedback on this site, no doubt about it!

 

[Blitz33]

The smell of testogel would attract women like crazy when I used it.

I will look into their formulation later, but it had a definite noticable effect.

is that real or just placebo