How necessary is HCG with a 12 week cycle of 400mgTESTenan/300mgEQ. Is clomid for 100mg/day/1 week followed by 50mg/day/1 week enough? Or do I need HCG? Will extra weeks on clomid compensate for not using HCG? Need some bros with experience as I don't want to feel swollen glands in my throat and realize that they're my receeded raisenet-like testicles.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
How necessary is HCG??
- Thread starter Str8blln
- Start date
Normal protocal for clomid is: 300mg day 1, days 2 - 14...100mg, days 15 - 21...50 mg. I tend to stay on longer though, but that's just me. Before anyone asks, I'll usually be on clomid at least a month, but this depends on cycle dosages and length.
HCG...I always use it when on deca, or heavy cycles. Some can recover fairly quick without use though or when on light cycles like the one your doing. You'll probably get a wide array of responses on the hcg topic, because everyone is a little different, and everyone may recover differently. With that said, when I use hcg, I use it DURING the cycle. Srarting about the third week in, and only use it on Saturdays and Sundays (weekends). This helps me recover quicker at the end of my cycle. It;s much better than letting your system completely shut down, and then trying to play catch up by using only at the end of a cycle.
Note: hcg will hinder recovery also, one reason I do not use it after my cycle.
HCG...I always use it when on deca, or heavy cycles. Some can recover fairly quick without use though or when on light cycles like the one your doing. You'll probably get a wide array of responses on the hcg topic, because everyone is a little different, and everyone may recover differently. With that said, when I use hcg, I use it DURING the cycle. Srarting about the third week in, and only use it on Saturdays and Sundays (weekends). This helps me recover quicker at the end of my cycle. It;s much better than letting your system completely shut down, and then trying to play catch up by using only at the end of a cycle.
Note: hcg will hinder recovery also, one reason I do not use it after my cycle.
quedog123
New Member
i would say very important man you need the fast acting shock to your system to get your test werkin again clomid is not fast enough you need them together do ur self a favor bro and use the hcg
Sack said:
ok i know im probably gonna start an hcg war here but i have to get this off my chest. hcg should NOT be used post cycle. simply because it does not restore hpta function. here is an exert from a bil roberts article:
"HCG is provided as a glycoprotein powder to be diluted with water, and acts in the body like LH, stimulating the testes to produce testosterone even when natural LH is not present or is deficient. It therefore is useful for maintaining testosterone production and/or testicle size during a steroid cycle. Use of this drug in the taper is rather counterproductive, since the resulting increased testosterone production is itself inhibitory to the hypothalamus and pituitary, delaying recovery. Thus, if this drug is used, it is preferably used during the cycle itself. A daily amount of 500 IU is generally sufficient, and in my opinion usage should not exceed 1000 IU per day."
this doesnt even get into the permanent desensitazition issue associated with high dose prolonged use of the drug. if you use hcg post cycle it is no different than continuing your actual cycle. you will still be shut down due to the artificial lh.
Blitz63
New Member
Swale had a write up in the HRT section......He likes people to use 500IU's 2 to 3 times a week to keep the boys runnin..........that way when you use the clomid you don't miss a beat. Btw I ran his protcol and it worked great! Going to use it all the time now.Biggriz said:
einstein1905
New Member
P-DOG said:
Ditto. During cycle only. Never should you be using clomid with HCG. Not only does HCG not restore HPTA function....it hinders/inhibits it. You need something to start at the top of the cascade of events in the HPTA. HCG is a LH mimic (LH is further down in the HPTA) and will signal back up to the top of the HPTA cascade that "everything is cool down here...no need to pump out any gonadotropin". Clomid stimulates release of gonadotropin.
einstein1905 said:
exaclty! its baout time we put to rest this old school idea that we need large doses of hcg post cycle. when you stop and think about how hcg works, it is really just common sense. unfortunately we have been conditioned to believe that we need hcg to give us that "jumpstart" post cycle. if you use it throuhgout, you will never experience testicular atrophy in the first place. that is the key.
P-DOG said:
the only information that you need to be reading is anabolics 2004. what you said is very true and usefull to use during a cycle. But the use of HCG is mandatory after a cycle. clomid cannot bring you back to normal by itself. I have done it by itself for 30 days after a cycle. it only brought my test levels back to 229 pts. with hcg and clomid 5 weeks after cycle i was 455pts. 260-1000 is normal. YOU NEED HCG. PERIOD.
Kelly Slater
New Member
Hey Dart,
If HCG usage after a cycle is like "running your cycle" longer, would it make sense to start HCG therapy during the last weeks of your acutaly cycle and then fininsh with Clomid?
I have always used HCG and clomid together at the end of a cycle. The HCG usage is kind of an insurance for me to get my boys back again. I was under the impression that the HCG is a "shock" to your boys to start working agian, while the clomid was more of a prolonged effect over a few weeks (in simple terms). I understand structuraly HCG and Clomid are not the same, but don't you need that quick jolt to your system to immeadiatly start producing test naturally aging so you dont have high cortizol levels in your body?
It seems that everyone has a different opinion on HCG usage, timing, exc., someone really should come forward and clear all this shit up, but then agian, maybe everyone's body is different and different things work for different people????
Just my .02
Peace...kelly
If HCG usage after a cycle is like "running your cycle" longer, would it make sense to start HCG therapy during the last weeks of your acutaly cycle and then fininsh with Clomid?
I have always used HCG and clomid together at the end of a cycle. The HCG usage is kind of an insurance for me to get my boys back again. I was under the impression that the HCG is a "shock" to your boys to start working agian, while the clomid was more of a prolonged effect over a few weeks (in simple terms). I understand structuraly HCG and Clomid are not the same, but don't you need that quick jolt to your system to immeadiatly start producing test naturally aging so you dont have high cortizol levels in your body?
It seems that everyone has a different opinion on HCG usage, timing, exc., someone really should come forward and clear all this shit up, but then agian, maybe everyone's body is different and different things work for different people????
Just my .02
Peace...kelly
einstein1905
New Member
Sack said:
To say HCG is mandatory after a cycle is not good advice. HCG definitely does shock the boys into producing test, but it also tells the big boy upstairs (your pituitary) not to worry about releasing gonadotropin to make more test.....rather it inhibits the process from the top down. HCG is counterproductive to restoring HPTA function. Your results were an anomaly. Most everyone that properly goes through pct will recover normal test levels completely shortly after (or even during) pct. HCG can be used right up to clomid use, but using them together is like pissing in the wind. This is well-established physiology, not a matter of opinion.
Sack said:
just a thought, when you had your test levels checked post cycle, were you still using or had recently shot the HCG, if so, could this not be the reason for the higher levels of endogeneous test. Also I'm assuming you are talking about having your test levels checked after two different cycles of similar (preferably identical) length, dosing, and also, similar, in regards to the drugs being used (ie test, fina, deca, etc.). just curious.
i_h8clowns
New Member
yes very necessary. i'd go with 250-500IU 2x/wk as perscribed by http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22574
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