Hypertrophy.....which method is better?

[TrippalHealicks]

Ok, I thought that the best way to build size over strength is LESS weight, for MORE reps... Especially in the training of your arms....

My friend argues that Hypertrophy is a direct result of strength, or MORE WEIGHT, LESS REPS....

Which one is true? As far as I'm concerned, it would be Less weight, more reps... it seems, in my own experience, that more reps usually make my muscles feel more "worked" and generally larger...

 

[Bob Smith]

Both can be true.

If you are trying to increase the size of your arms, you better bring up your total bodyweight or else they arent gonna grow much at all, regardless of your training program.

 

[Ramstein II]

Strength = Endurance

I’m not going to reiterate how muscles grow. The answer though is that more reps with less weight are better for hypertrophy. “Less weight” has to be heavy enough to cross you over into the anaerobic, fast twitch threshold–60% of 1RM at least, probably 70-80% is better. “More reps” means 8-12 reps or 30-60 second sets. “More weight” (85-100%) and “fewer reps” (1-5) train your muscles more on a neurological level–meaning they “learn” to contract harder for that particular activity (SAID principle) and thus get “stronger.” They will likely also hypertrophy some too from low rep work (see generally power athletes), but not as much as if you did more fatiguing, higher volume work (see generally bodybuilders).

The only problem with moderate rep work (say, sets of 10) is that they do not fire the fastest of the fast twitch fibers at their maximum firing rate if the reps are done slowly. One way around this is to use explosive reps (explosive positive, controlled negative) with lighter weight (e.g. 60-70%). Quick movement will fire those fibers maximally. That’s not to say you should do “cheat reps”–just some controlled accelerated reps.

This is an important point–how to train with lighter weights to maximize hypertrophy. Those type IIB fibers will tire very quickly and the reps will naturally slow down as fatigue sets in. The sets get slower and apply more tension to the IIA fibers which fatigue nicely. Then, you’re done. No more is necessary. Find the volume that gets you there and you have a workout.

The key, though in any program is progressive resistance. You must get stronger in your training rep range. What is “strength?” If you can understand the principle I’m about to tell you, then you will have a winning program: Strength = Endurance. This takes some explaining. I’m talking about anaerobic endurance. If you can do more reps over the course of several sets, then you’re getting stronger. So, for example, when you can do 3 sets of 10 with a weight, you are “stronger” then when you could only do a set of 10, then 9, and then 8. That’s when you increase the weight. This type of training causes real muscle fatigue, not neuromuscular exhaustion that simply makes you better at a given activity with maybe some hypertrophy.

 

[TrippalHealicks]

The way i'm doin' it now-a-days is 60-80%/1RM, for about 12-20 reps. This gets the guns burnin' REAL nicely.... That's with alternating hammer curls and alt. standing curls.

Same thing for elbow extensions (tricep kickbacks)... usually try to do about 20 reps with those.

 

[Bob Smith]

Why are you going for the "burn?"

 

[armsports]

I think you'd be much better served to keep the reps in the 8-12 range, with a few 4-6's thrown in for good measure

 

[Grizzly]

The "burn" has no bearing on muscular growth, so you might want to nix the 20's.

 

[TrippalHealicks]

When I say "burn", I don't mean burn as in it "hurts like hell" or something to that nature, I just mean that it gets my arms "worked".. ya know?

Like, I'll use a light enough weight so that it takes that many reps before I'm reaching exaustion.... I try to focus on control and form the entire 20 reps.

 

[Biggriz]

As bodybuilders we need to apply a WIDE range of stresses to our muscles to grow to our full potential. PERIOD. Anyone who exclusivly trains in the 10 - 12 rep range or in the 1 - 5 rep range has yet to experience their full potential. The trick to growing maximally is to cosistantly change your program about every 3 - 6 weeks depending on your training age. Low reps/ heavy weights WILL make you grow like a Mo Fo if all you've been doing are high rep programs. The key is volume with the low reps..8-12 sets. We need to lift light, med., and heavy..high, med., and low reps...fast and slow ...we need it ALL. But everyone is different and we must figure out what combos will give us (each individual) maximum growth. Do we need to lift very frequently or do we need more rest - probably both, should we hit each muscle group once a week or twice? - probably both, should we train very hard ALL the time? probably not. To get an instant growth surge, do the complete opposite of what you've been currently doing. It's not a simple answer and you won't find the answer overnight..if it werethat easy everyone would be huge and ripped. Enjoy the journey!

 

[Biggriz]

Oh, and dude...tricep kickbacks suck! You need to do exercises where you can handle more weight...weighted dips, close grip bench press, rack lock-outs,etc.
There's one thing I learned over the years, and that is the essential exercises to get big. They are; bent rows, pull-ups, bench presses, squats, deadlifts and military presses. The rest are secondary!

 

[Desibaba]

The burn means nothing.I used to train my forearms in the 15 to 20 rep range and at the end of each set i felt every fiber in there was on fire.Now i do 6-8 reps(with a much heavier weight ofcourse) and the size of my forearms has improved drastically.By the way ive read that in order to add one inch to your arms you need to add around 10 lbs of bodyweight(and no,Dunkin donuts and krispy kreme gained weight doesnt count).

 

[Freddy]

Oh, and dude...tricep kickbacks suck! You need to do exercises where you can handle more weight...weighted dips, close grip bench press, rack lock-outs,etc.
There's one thing I learned over the years, and that is the essential exercises to get big. They are; bent rows, pull-ups, bench presses, squats, deadlifts and military presses. The rest are secondary!

This is a good post.

 

[Grizzly]

Yes it is, Freddy.

It's come to my attention (from not training bis/tris for 8+ months) that multiple pressing movements are all that's needed for tricep stimulus. Military, incline, bench, push press, etc.

 

[TrippalHealicks]

Oh, and dude...tricep kickbacks suck! You need to do exercises where you can handle more weight...weighted dips, close grip bench press, rack lock-outs,etc.
There's one thing I learned over the years, and that is the essential exercises to get big. They are; bent rows, pull-ups, bench presses, squats, deadlifts and military presses. The rest are secondary!

Yeah, I do most of those...... I do dips on bi-tri day, (can't do weighted dips... I'm in the process of rehabbing a SERIOUSLY damaged tricep in my right arm) close grip benches on chest day, bent-over rows on back day, pull-ups on bi-tri day, benches on chest day, squats on leg day (a shit-load of 'em, too. 4 sets of 20) deadlifts on leg day... no military presses 'cause I also have a rehabbing left shoulder.. (it's worse than the right Tricep)...

 

[thick]

How did you get these multiple injuries? Surely it wasnt from lifting weights that you can do 20 slow controlled reps.

Yeah, I do most of those...... I do dips on bi-tri day, (can't do weighted dips... I'm in the process of rehabbing a SERIOUSLY damaged tricep in my right arm) close grip benches on chest day, bent-over rows on back day, pull-ups on bi-tri day, benches on chest day, squats on leg day (a shit-load of 'em, too. 4 sets of 20) deadlifts on leg day... no military presses 'cause I also have a rehabbing left shoulder.. (it's worse than the right Tricep)...

 

[TrippalHealicks]

How did you get these multiple injuries? Surely it wasnt from lifting weights that you can do 20 slow controlled reps.

Serious car accident. Should have been dead like 3 times. haha

Broken humorous bone in right arm, seriously damaged deltoid in left shoulder, skull cracked open in between eyes and on rear left corner of head, tibia in right leg snapped in half and protruded from the leg, 2 broken ribs. It was FUN!!! haha

 

[Biggriz]

Yo bro, I think you've got to work on rehabing those injuries BEFORE you even consider adding arm size. You simply cannot get bigger if you have nerve damage, impingments, etc. the muscles simply cannot be stimulated properly. For example...if you've got a screwed up shoulder, it will hamper the growth of your arms...if you cannot work and strengthen your shoulders they will not support 18" arms...
You training needs to be adjusted also../back day, chest day, arm day, leg day...when is REST DAY??? Unless your a genetic freak or juiced to the gills, most people make the best progress with a two day on, one day off split. But like I said in an earlier post, switch things up from time to time. Ex; upper body day, lower body day, rest day..with weekends off/// or chest/back day, quad day, rest day, arm day, hamstring day...etc. too much is often just as bad if not worse than not enough! We growww when we rest!!!
Bros that are in the gym 6-7 days a week may be resting certain body parts, but what about your immune system, nervous system, etc. Injuries you get from the gym are signs of overtraining...when was the last time you took a week off?
You can think about all that AFTER you rehab that shoulder and tricep if at all possible. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions...if you don't ask you will not receive. Later.

 

[thick]

ok, wow that sucks. Be careful with your training and with how fast you add weight. How long ago were the wrecks? sorry if u already posted that

Serious car accident. Should have been dead like 3 times. haha

Broken humorous bone in right arm, seriously damaged deltoid in left shoulder, skull cracked open in between eyes and on rear left corner of head, tibia in right leg snapped in half and protruded from the leg, 2 broken ribs. It was FUN!!! haha

 

[TrippalHealicks]

4 years and about 2 months... They're pretty permanent, unfortunately.
As far as the resting goes, of COURSE I have a rest day. Hell, I have 2 or 3 some weeks, depending on how my work goes.

 

[TrippalHealicks]

UPDATE: Biggriz, I just had a "nerve conduction test" done the other day, and I'm currently waiting for the doctor's analysis of the findings, and we're gonna see what we can do about some possible nerve re-construction... I'd love to get my left shoulder back, especially... it looks just plain stupid compared to my right one. (Right ones gettin' big, left one looks flat) It's seriously affecting the rest of my left arm's growth, too... I can lift more per 1RM with the left, but with a moderate weight, the right arm can go WAY more reps than the left (more endurance)... Makes alot of sense when you think about it. The Deltoid being a major support and stabilizer muscle for the entire arm. That coupled with the hardware that's in my right arm, makes for a little more pain when lifting heavy weight in the right hand. But, anyway, I'll be sure to let you guys know what happens, especially if I go under the knife. If I do, i'm gonna try to talk my doctor into prescribin' me some gear. To "speed up the recovery"... yeah... (grin) I can't really start any cycles right now, since my job drug tests frequently. Can't risk it. But, I talked with someone from my HR department @ work, and she said that I can take any drug I like as long as it's prescribed by a doctor. So, I figure why not? Get away with it, and have my insurance pay for it, too! woohoo!

Yo bro, I think you've got to work on rehabing those injuries BEFORE you even consider adding arm size. You simply cannot get bigger if you have nerve damage, impingments, etc. the muscles simply cannot be stimulated properly. For example...if you've got a screwed up shoulder, it will hamper the growth of your arms...if you cannot work and strengthen your shoulders they will not support 18" arms...
You training needs to be adjusted also../back day, chest day, arm day, leg day...when is REST DAY??? Unless your a genetic freak or juiced to the gills, most people make the best progress with a two day on, one day off split. But like I said in an earlier post, switch things up from time to time. Ex; upper body day, lower body day, rest day..with weekends off/// or chest/back day, quad day, rest day, arm day, hamstring day...etc. too much is often just as bad if not worse than not enough! We growww when we rest!!!
Bros that are in the gym 6-7 days a week may be resting certain body parts, but what about your immune system, nervous system, etc. Injuries you get from the gym are signs of overtraining...when was the last time you took a week off?
You can think about all that AFTER you rehab that shoulder and tricep if at all possible. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions...if you don't ask you will not receive. Later.