I hate training programs

[Sensational]

I just train hard and allow my body adequate time to heal. Sometimes I really think people make stuff too complicated. I play it by feel more than anything, and it has gotten me pretty far. At 20, I am 265 pounds at 13% bodyfat and looking to compete in the near future.

I do see the value of programs for certain times and people though. This is not a program bashing thread, well not entirely ~Sensational

 

[fatboy]

I'm right there with ya on that. Personaly I think some people spend too much time thinking about what and how, and not enough time in the gym. I also have not followed any specific routine, and I'm lifting more than most of the guy's I see in the gym, and with better form. I guess it comes down to, what ever floates your boat.

 

[Bob Smith]

Ultimately the question is, are what you doing the MOST effective program you could be using? No doubt that most programs will ellicit some gains for people, but that is usually far from optimal. And arent we all in the same search for optimality? (Is that even a word? If not, well, it is now!)

 

[Gavin Laird]

BBers are about the only athletes I ever encounter who take this approach and time and time again it proves detrimental to their progress.

You have to remember Sensational that 99% of bodybuilding "programs" out there are a random amalgamation of sets and reps with little or no actual planning, there are very few well thought out BBing programs in general use (I can think of about 4 pre-set programs i would consider using) but the value of coming up with a specific plan for an athlete then following it towards a specific goal cannot be underestimated. The two things (preset canned program Vs individually designed program) are very different.

Chances are you do this already when you "play it by ear". You look at your body, decide what it needs, decide what workouts need to be done to meet those needs and then do them. That is programming, pure and simple.

Cheers,

Gavin.

 

[Sensational]

BBers are about the only athletes I ever encounter who take this approach and time and time again it proves detrimental to their progress.

You have to remember Sensational that 99% of bodybuilding "programs" out there are a random amalgamation of sets and reps with little or no actual planning, there are very few well thought out BBing programs in general use (I can think of about 4 pre-set programs i would consider using) but the value of coming up with a specific plan for an athlete then following it towards a specific goal cannot be underestimated. The two things (preset canned program Vs individually designed program) are very different.

Chances are you do this already when you "play it by ear". You look at your body, decide what it needs, decide what workouts need to be done to meet those needs and then do them. That is programming, pure and simple.

Cheers,

Gavin.

I have heard great things about your training programs BTW Gavin. AnabolicMD my fellow young brother in iron, speaks highly of you. Take care bro!

 

[eleven11]

At 20 yrs old you'll grow with just about any workout program. But wouldn't you rather get the best results from your workouts. As you get more experience you'll make ajustments.

 

[Bob Smith]

IMO, if a program comes out of a glossy magazines, 999 times out of 1000 its gonna be a crappy program. Just look at the reason why you see so many people on the gym who never change year after year after year. They have been "educated" by the magazines.

Guys like us are the exception rather than the rule. And people like Gavin, who spend their life studying, implementating, adjusting programs for individuals are going to produce personalized programs that will surpass a generic program written for the masses. I think HST is a great program, but someone like Gavin could use that as a base and then make certain tweaks to fit the individuals strengths and weaknesses so that even better results are achieved.

I view instinctive training in the same way that I view people who dont keep a training diary, its just pointless. You might as well stay home on the couch.

 

[Grizzly]

Pre-canned programs? Sure, they're alright I guess or something. However, I would say that, instead of following programs, one would be well advised to follow a training philosophy. Namely, a philosophy that works and has scientifc backing.

 

[Sensational]

Edited it because I was being stupid.

 

[Bob Smith]

I dont think he was discounting your gains, only wondering if you would have been able to achieve those gains faster by using a more thought out training philosophy.

Bashing liberals...Im with him.

 

[Iron Jay]

Pre-canned programs? Sure, they're alright I guess or something. However, I would say that, instead of following programs, one would be well advised to follow a training philosophy. Namely, a philosophy that works and has scientifc backing.

I think Grizzly sums it up best, its a training philosophy that one is following more so that a specific program...I have chatted with Hogg about the DFT and training everything 2x wk with using a 3 on, 1 off...Now, I am following this philosophy but if I walk in the gym and my body wants to go heavy or I need to use less weight I might not pay as much attention to what my training log says..Now, I will still use the basis of this program but I think this is a better approach then following what it says on the paper..My body feels so different day to day thats hard for me to stick to a super strict program, and this had led to better gains for myself than always following something to the letter...

 

[Gavin Laird]

Grizz / Iron Jay,

That approach (of having set training philosophy / fixed periods of certian kinds of work) but then modifying it according to your short term preparedness (how "good" / "ready" you feel) is what Dr Siff refferred to as "cybernetic periodisation".

Most athletes on a supposedly fixed program do this anyway, and yeah, it is the best approach. Set out a plan, then tinker with it to suit the immediate circumstances.

Bob Smith, thanks for the kudos....I feel like sunshine blows out of my ass today - are you this nice to Jewel? Are you hitting on me ? Hehehehe.

Sensational - Where the feck is Anabolic MD anyway ? He's crap with updates, tell him to let me know how he is getting on. Last I heard he was doing great but I'd like to know if he is competing soon etc.

Cheers,

Gav.

 

[Bob Smith]

No Gavin, Im not hitting on you. lol But the next time Im on your side of the Pond....

I havent heard from AnabolicMD in at least a month or two. From what I remember, he was doing well in school, but no word on his progress with your program.

 

[Ramstein II]

I don’t like preset programs either. I believe that one can acquire the ability to instinctively train. I think what is most important is learning principles of training and hypertrophy and designing your own program that works for you. While physiology is universal for humans, individual circumstances and differences dictate individualized programs. Also, variety keeps it fresh and keeps you interested.

“Accommodation” occurs after a while on a program and a hypertrophy plateau may be hit. This would seem to suggest change on a regular basis. The frequency of that change will vary. Personally, my core lifts stay about the same with little variance. I like to change up the other lifts frequently. Most bodybuilders like to work muscles from various angles with various exercises to achieve full muscular development. That is something unique about bodybuilding training versus strength training. After a requisite time of training using various lifts your body “learns” those moves. After the exercises are “learned” you can change up the workout more frequently.

 

[Phreezer]

You want the plain honest truth? Pre-canned programs will offer the most success to the masses. Why? because people are lazy, and they never want to do the work necessary to find out how to set up their own program.. or to tweak a program to suit their needs.. it's that simple..

For the more educated, more experienced lifter...cough cough..and the More intelligent lifter... A predesigned program like HST, DFHT, DC, or 5X5 (did I hit the four you'd consider using Gavin? cause those are the four I've looked at) May not be the best for you.. You use the brain God gave you, and don't go to failure every set..you don't do bench 3-5 workouts per week, you don't neglect squating....

However, for the general masses..these programs will work wonders because they tell you to use a set % for a set number of reps for a set number of exercises, and on a set amount of days... That's why they are effective.. and I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts, that once someone has some success on these type of programs..they'll eventualy abandon them and design their own...why? because they'll have learned the necessary tools required to set up their own program..Knowledge...experience...wisdom... and discipline... But for the average Joe, just getting started.. there is nothing better for that athlete than a pre-canned program ready to go... It will grow along with them, untill they have can do it for themselves...

 

[Gavin Laird]

Preach on Brother Phreezer...hehehe.

This has been a cool thread. Umm...bump.

 

[AnimalMass]

Listen to Gavin and Phreezer.

Instictive training is totally worthless. Find an elite level OLY lifter who's going to the olympic trials this year and ask them if they just go into the gym and do what they feel their body needs.

That's bullshit.

HST, DFHT, 5x5, Westside, etc. are set up on some seirous scientific principles that 99.9% of the world doesn't have a clue about.

Hell, I train with and coach a bunch of elite level powerlifters and many of them don't have a damn clue how to set up their own program. Luckily I know their weaknesses and the way their body handles stress so I know how to tailor a program to meet their needs.

You achieve true success when you become educating in these things and can do them for yourself, but it is SO RARE that I see someone who can do that. - so most of you should be following a set program - not anything out of Flex, but HST or DFHT, etc. - something really gournded in science and the gym.

AM