Injections VS gels

[GDSGFT]

To Swale or any other experienced members in this field.

Was wondering which of the two were worse in terms of acne and hairloss. I've read an article somewhere saying that the gels aromatise more than the injections and produce more DHT, not too sure how concrete the information is.

Thanks in advance

 

[earthdog]

The gels do produce more DHT due to an enzyme in the skin, that's a fact. That can be good or bad, depending. Not sure whether they aromatize more or not.

Most of the bros who have used both gels and cyp seem to prefer cyp. Not all, but it seems like most do. I have seen a common complaint that the gels work for a while, then they don't produce the same effect later on.

 

[MrDurden]

I definitely saw a difference when on gel in the past. I had reddish blemishes on my scalp where my hair was thinning. Made me think more hair was being "killed off"! I also noticed an increase "male" hair growth. It seemed like the hair was denser on my body, and perhaps longer.

My other gel complaint was a lowering of my total T. This was all on 5gm/day. DHT was above normal.

 

[GDSGFT]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

 

[SWALE]

Estrogen may more likely rise on transdermals.

 

[gemini]

Estrogen may more likely rise on transdermals.

I was under the impression that injectible T caused higher Estrogens than transdermals.

 

[Astrozombie]

Any "common man" answer for the difference in the estrogen / acne / hairloss between the two? I would think that if the medication and dosage were the same then the side effects would be the same, but obviously I am wrong.

Now that you mentioned it though, when I was on the gel I did seem to have a super greasy forehead and while I have always had a slight acne problem it seems to be better on the injectibles than on the gel.

 

[earthdog]

Any "common man" answer for the difference in the estrogen / acne / hairloss between the two? I would think that if the medication and dosage were the same then the side effects would be the same, but obviously I am wrong.

One of the things that testosterone converts to is DHT. That is the hormone that is, to quote Swale, "responsible for All Things Male." But DHT is also responsible for male pattern baldness. The skin contains an enzyme that coverts testosterone to DHT. Therefore, testosterone applied transdermally (through the skin) will have a higher conversion rate to DHT than injected testosterone will, and therefore will be somewhat more likely to produce male pattern baldness, if you are genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness. If you are not genetically predisposed to it, then there is no problem there. Injected testosterone will also convert to DHT, but at a lower rate than transdermally applied testosterone.

I don't know if DHT can also cause acne. My guess is that it can. Perhaps someone can answer that.

 

[Weatherlite]

DHT can contribute to acne. Ironically, many think that too much T causes acne. Well, yes it does but so can too much E or rather a bad T to E ratio. Sounds crazy but my E levels haven't changed much since I started TRT. They've gone up a little bit. But, since starting TRT my acne has gotten better! (yes I took accutane but it got better before I started it) It was pretty horrible before and then went down to just horrible afterwards.

So don't just look to the T side of the house when it comes to acne!

 

[pmgamer18]

Any "common man" answer for the difference in the estrogen / acne / hairloss between the two? I would think that if the medication and dosage were the same then the side effects would be the same, but obviously I am wrong.

Now that you mentioned it though, when I was on the gel I did seem to have a super greasy forehead and while I have always had a slight acne problem it seems to be better on the injectibles than on the gel.

I found the same thing my forehead was super greasy on the gel and my DHT was 2x's above the range of my lab. Yet my E2 goes up faster on shots then on the gels but doing the gels I don't feel as good as I do on the shots.
I did a search a long time ago on DHT and all I could find was stuff about hair loss. But one day I found this and it is worth a read.
A link to "The FACTS & MYTHS About: DHT.
Phil

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm

 

[MikeHeavypecs]

I have "fought" the baldness problem for years with DHT. I just went to a "renouned" Dermatologist here in Houston and was told that essentially there is nothing that can be done to reverse baldness since one is predisposed genetically for baldness. If one is 25 and the genetic makeup says that he will be bald by age 40, then DHT will accelerate it, but nothing can really change the end results. I had to have have transplants early on in which the plastic surgeons stated the exact same these concerning baldness. Now that I am 52 and STILL taking testosterone for muscle mass, I would be completely bald if it wasn't for my transplanted areas. Propecia nor any of the other DHT fighting drugs would have made a difference........

Mike

 

[mranak]

I was under the impression that injectible T caused higher Estrogens than transdermals.

Nope. Why? Because the adipose tissue (fat) contains higher concentrations of the aromatase enzyme, which converts testosterone to estradiol.

 

[gemini]

Nope. Why? Because the adipose tissue (fat) contains higher concentrations of the aromatase enzyme, which converts testosterone to estradiol.

What about the fact that the injectible T causes a faster rise in T levels thereby causing a bigger conversion to Estrogen?

 

[pmgamer18]

I have done both and a mix for gel and shots. I find that the shots convert faster then the gels. But it does not matter I have to take something everyday to keep my E2 in check.
Phil

 

[GDSGFT]

One of the things that testosterone converts to is DHT. That is the hormone that is, to quote Swale, "responsible for All Things Male." But DHT is also responsible for male pattern baldness. The skin contains an enzyme that coverts testosterone to DHT. Therefore, testosterone applied transdermally (through the skin) will have a higher conversion rate to DHT than injected testosterone will, and therefore will be somewhat more likely to produce male pattern baldness, if you are genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness. If you are not genetically predisposed to it, then there is no problem there. Injected testosterone will also convert to DHT, but at a lower rate than transdermally applied testosterone.

I don't know if DHT can also cause acne. My guess is that it can. Perhaps someone can answer that.

Acne is a disorder of keratinization, meaning the development of cells lining the sebaceous gland is faulty.

These cell walls are sticky, binding together, plugging the gland rather than easily exfoliating themselves onto the surface.

Despite the presence of this plug, the sebaceous glands, triggered by DHT, the active form of testosterone, continue to secrete sebum.

so to your question, yes DHT can and will trigger acne in many who are predisposed to it.

 

[ciobl]

Acne is a disorder of keratinization, meaning the development of cells lining the sebaceous gland is faulty.
These cell walls are sticky, binding together, plugging the gland rather than easily exfoliating themselves onto the surface.
Despite the presence of this plug, the sebaceous glands, triggered by DHT, the active form of testosterone, continue to secrete sebum.

Holy camoly !!!!! say that again ?

 

[earthdog]

Acne is a disorder of keratinization, meaning the development of cells lining the sebaceous gland is faulty.

These cell walls are sticky, binding together, plugging the gland rather than easily exfoliating themselves onto the surface.

Despite the presence of this plug, the sebaceous glands, triggered by DHT, the active form of testosterone, continue to secrete sebum.

so to your question, yes DHT can and will trigger acne in many who are predisposed to it.

That sounds like me. Faulty sebaceous lining cells. My pores clog no matter what I use or how often I wash.

Does accutane somehow reverse or correct this process? I'm considering using accutane.

 

[Weatherlite]

Accutane causes the glands to reduce, or in some cases STOP, producing the oils. This is a permanent thing. It also causes LOTS of dryness when on it. I just got done with a 5 month regimen at a reduced dosage (had to go low cause of the side effects...I'd shit myself at higher doses lol!) Even at a less than optimal dose most of my acne is gone. ALL of the large nodules are gone. Worth it. Sucks while on but afterwards you're very happy.

 

[SWALE]

Gemini's got it right. Test cyp will increase E levels dramatically when it is overdosed. This increases the activity of the aromatase enzyme.

But generaly transdermals elevate E moreso (compared to appropriate test cyp dosing) because of the presence of the aromatase enzyme in the adipose tissue. It also tends to rise over time.

 

[Vforcer2]

I have had acne problems all my life and was extremely concerned about this being aggravated by TRT. I no longer have an acne problem since I discovered "The Regimin" at www.acne.org. I have altered it just a little but what I do is was my face in the shower with a soap called Basic. Then after drying I apply the gel developed by the owner of the site(it is dirt cheap and last for a couple of months). It is 5% Ben. Perox. You must use it liberally and it dries on clear. I apply it to my problem areas only. Then use the mosturizer, brand Basic(it does not clog pores). In the evening just before going to bed I use 2""Clear and Clean" Salic Acid pads on the problem areas and let it dry. That is it! Once you start using the Regimin, it only takes a couple of extra minutes out of your day. Worked like a charm for me. TRT has not caused any relapses.