Intermittent Fasting for Leptin & Ghrelin Control - Question re workout timing

[ToastEater]

Hey guys.

I’m gonna give this a go to help my cravings.

I’m seeking your feedback on when my ideal 8 hour eating window should be. Here are the details of my day:

-Rise at 4a (water, journal, stretch, peds, supps, etc)
-Cardio at 5:30a (typically 45 mins 5x/wk)
-Lift at 6:30a (typically 60 mins 5x/wk)
-Home at 7:30a
-Take kids to school by 8:30a
-Work at 9:00a
-Pick kids up at 5:30p
-Feed kids at 6p
-Put kids to bed at 7p
-I go to bed at 8p

My biggest question, and I suppose, the main concern I have is about getting carbs & protein infested within a reasonable window after my lifting session. Is that still a thing that science backs?

For example, since I’m finished my workout by 7:30a, do I NEED to eat by 8:30a? If so, that makes my 8 hour eating window 8a to 4p. In that case I wouldn’t be eating supper with my kids and may face the dreaded cravings at night.

Alternatively, if there’s no longer evidence supporting needing to replace glycogen immediately after a workout, AND I can manage it, then I would make the 8 hour eating window 10a to 6p so that I could eat with my kids.

It’s not a huge deal either way, but I DO want to try it and the PRIMARY considerations are Leptin & Ghrelin control as well as effective nutrient management for maximum muscle growth.

Thanks guys!

 

[Bjorn Turock]

Science does not back the post-workout feeding anymore, if you need to prove it to yourself just get a CGM and track your blood sugar for a week or two, you'll notice that things take a much longer time to metabolize than the protein-shake peddlers would have you believe.

I have been on intermittent fasting for the last five years, with great success. Looking at your schedule, I would have plan the eating window later.

Also, just for life quality, always prioritize meal time with your kids, both their life quality and yours. Teach them to fuel and feed their bodies in a healthy manner, train them to eat nutrient dense foods.


Okay, back to you. Eating window 12-8pm

-maximize time in glycogen depletion post workout because this is when you are actively burning fat, you are in ketosis stay fasted until noon, or if you can 2pm

-eat with your kids, enjoy your life

-this is much more sustainable in social life, go on dates, dinner with friends etc

Let's talk glycogen, why are you concerned about it? I would say that if you are looking to put up the biggest possible numbers in the gym, you should walk in with your muscle glycogen "full". Don't make the mistake of thinking you cannot make consistent gains without glycogen though, because that is simply not true.

Other things to keep in mind:

Eating a little higher fat near the end of feeding window will make it easier to fast until the next one. A little coffee can be a great aid in the morning if the hunger tickle is there when you wake up. Yohimbine is also a great supplement so long as you only take it when you're fasted and with a little coffee.

A few months on this schedule and you should have no problem going for 24-36 hours without food. And I mean normal, training, going to work, not being an ornery prick hours. That my friend is control.

Cheers

 

[jJjburton]

Science does not back the post-workout feeding anymore, if you need to prove it to yourself just get a CGM and track your blood sugar for a week or two, you'll notice that things take a much longer time to metabolize than the protein-shake peddlers would have you believe.

I have been on intermittent fasting for the last five years, with great success. Looking at your schedule, I would have plan the eating window later.

Also, just for life quality, always prioritize meal time with your kids, both their life quality and yours. Teach them to fuel and feed their bodies in a healthy manner, train them to eat nutrient dense foods.


Okay, back to you. Eating window 12-8pm

-maximize time in glycogen depletion post workout because this is when you are actively burning fat, you are in ketosis stay fasted until noon, or if you can 2pm

-eat with your kids, enjoy your life

-this is much more sustainable in social life, go on dates, dinner with friends etc

Let's talk glycogen, why are you concerned about it? I would say that if you are looking to put up the biggest possible numbers in the gym, you should walk in with your muscle glycogen "full". Don't make the mistake of thinking you cannot make consistent gains without glycogen though, because that is simply not true.

Other things to keep in mind:

Eating a little higher fat near the end of feeding window will make it easier to fast until the next one. A little coffee can be a great aid in the morning if the hunger tickle is there when you wake up. Yohimbine is also a great supplement so long as you only take it when you're fasted and with a little coffee.

A few months on this schedule and you should have no problem going for 24-36 hours without food. And I mean normal, training, going to work, not being an ornery prick hours. That my friend is control.

Cheers

Do you have the science behind the post workout feeding?

 

[Bjorn Turock]

I don't have a study at my finger tips, but I recall there is a decent section on metabolism in Ferriss' 4HB book.

Dom D'Agostino does a ton of good research on this type of stuff. If I were personally trying to grow and put on as much muscle as possible, I would cut out all carbs with the exception of one 2 hour cheat meal once per week. That meal would be designed to drive my BG through the roof as fast as possible. More of a Mauro Dipasquale approach

 

[jJjburton]

I don't have a study at my finger tips, but I recall there is a decent section on metabolism in Ferriss' 4HB book.

Dom D'Agostino does a ton of good research on this type of stuff. If I were personally trying to grow and put on as much muscle as possible, I would cut out all carbs with the exception of one 2 hour cheat meal once per week. That meal would be designed to drive my BG through the roof as fast as possible. More of a Mauro Dipasquale approach

Interesting, but this would not have to do anything about keto? Or fasting?

Or would this would be just for a general protocol for building muscle?

 

[Bjorn Turock]

What is a general protocol?

I think understanding that the "post workout window" to eat is a marketing tool and nothing else is very valuable for anyone dedicated to building muscle. Don't burn up too much time or money that you could be investing in training, sleeping, or whole nutritious food

 

[jJjburton]

Hey guys.

I’m gonna give this a go to help my cravings.

I’m seeking your feedback on when my ideal 8 hour eating window should be. Here are the details of my day:

-Rise at 4a (water, journal, stretch, peds, supps, etc)
-Cardio at 5:30a (typically 45 mins 5x/wk)
-Lift at 6:30a (typically 60 mins 5x/wk)
-Home at 7:30a
-Take kids to school by 8:30a
-Work at 9:00a
-Pick kids up at 5:30p
-Feed kids at 6p
-Put kids to bed at 7p
-I go to bed at 8p

My biggest question, and I suppose, the main concern I have is about getting carbs & protein infested within a reasonable window after my lifting session. Is that still a thing that science backs?

For example, since I’m finished my workout by 7:30a, do I NEED to eat by 8:30a? If so, that makes my 8 hour eating window 8a to 4p. In that case I wouldn’t be eating supper with my kids and may face the dreaded cravings at night.

Alternatively, if there’s no longer evidence supporting needing to replace glycogen immediately after a workout, AND I can manage it, then I would make the 8 hour eating window 10a to 6p so that I could eat with my kids.

It’s not a huge deal either way, but I DO want to try it and the PRIMARY considerations are Leptin & Ghrelin control as well as effective nutrient management for maximum muscle growth.

Thanks guys!

What I have learned, is that its ideal to shuttle carbs/glycogen back into the muscles in order to allow for some processes in the body to perform best. I cant name the energy systems off the too of my head that would allow the muscles to work better and recover.

but also that having full glycogen stores are ideal for performance, and even an intra glucose supplement. Which increased performance and duration of performance by 8% in soccer players. In a study i wrote a paper on.

when you have full glycogen stores and you exercises at a high intensity, the glycolitic system which has alot to do with type 2 a muscle fibers perform the best.

 

[jJjburton]

I don't have a study at my finger tips, but I recall there is a decent section on metabolism in Ferriss' 4HB book.

Dom D'Agostino does a ton of good research on this type of stuff. If I were personally trying to grow and put on as much muscle as possible, I would cut out all carbs with the exception of one 2 hour cheat meal once per week. That meal would be designed to drive my BG through the roof as fast as possible. More of a Mauro Dipasquale approach

You described only having one 2 hour cheat meal once per week for optimal muscle growth.

so would you do this while doing intermittent fasting?


Disregard the general protocol.

 

[jJjburton]

What is a general protocol?

I think understanding that the "post workout window" to eat is a marketing tool and nothing else is very valuable for anyone dedicated to building muscle. Don't burn up too much time or money that you could be investing in training, sleeping, or whole nutritious food

Yes i understand that it is used for marketing.

however when trying to obtain muscle mass, it would be ideal to fill up with macros before and after exercise, to optimize production of muscle building properties in certain energy systems.

 

[Bjorn Turock]

I completely disagree. When you eat constantly like that, you short circuit your body's endogenous growth hormone production. And you desensitize yourself to insulin.

 

[jJjburton]

I completely disagree. When you eat constantly like that, you short circuit your body's endogenous growth hormone production. And you desensitize yourself to insulin.

i wish i knew more information, and could know more about the topic of what you have brought forward. Maybe one day I will, as of now I have only been taught from my classes and studying about the info I have infront of me.

 

[jJjburton]

I completely disagree. When you eat constantly like that, you short circuit your body's endogenous growth hormone production. And you desensitize yourself to insulin.

But we are using AAS and HGH. So its not like we are naturally building muscle.