Is GH worth it for me?

[Ghoul]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I wasn’t expecting a magic bullet, more just looking for something to complement my current test protocol. I’m also intrigued by GH’s fat-burning effects, but I guess I could always just up my cardio… even though it’s always a drag for me.

If you want to dip your toes into GH lipolysis, in a low risk. low effort way, you could start with Tesamorelin. Then you can graduate to rHGH later if you want.

It essentially turns up your natural GH production to the point of increasing IGF about 50%.

The nice thing about this is the hypothalamus pituitary axis stays intact. That means the increased GH is released via the same natural pulses as endogenous GH, just stronger. It prevents fat cells from becoming less sensitive to GH from the non-pulsatile continuous exposure to exogenous GH, so the fat burning effect doesn't diminish over time.

The bottom line is timing of injection and meals becomes a non issue, sides are far lower (often non existent), yet you get the a benefit equivalent to a side effect inducing dose of rHGH. "rHGH with training wheels".

Look up Egrifta, the name brand. It's explicitly prescribed for enhancing lipolysis in people with issues from anti-HIV drugs that cause fat mass increases, and it works well for recomp, with an excellent safety record. It costs $7,200 / month and insurance wouldn't cover it if it were ineffective.

Some people will point out rHGH does the same, a bit faster, and if you go with a high dose, significantly faster, which is true, but Tesamorelin will be the equivalent of 1.5-3iu, without the downsides.

rHGH got so cheap the price gap was getting rediculous to the point it was hard to justify Tesa, but it's finally dropped and only a slight premium over rHGH per equivalent dose,

 

[juicebro]

GH is cheap. Makes no sense anymore not to run it. It pretty much transformed my physique in a couple of years when I got on it. Haven't looked back since. My serum IGF-1 has been super low the entire time. Even when megadosing GH it wasn't much higher than yours. So it leads me to believe serum IGF-1 is not relevant at all because the results speak for themself.

 

[Ghoul]

GH is cheap. Makes no sense anymore not to run it. It pretty much transformed my physique in a couple of years when I got on it. Haven't looked back since. My serum IGF-1 has been super low the entire time. Even when megadosing GH it wasn't much higher than yours. So it leads me to believe serum IGF-1 is not relevant at all because the results speak for themself.

Lipolysis is a GH effect, IGF is for tissue growth, FYI.

 

[juicebro]

Lipolysis is a GH effect, IGF is for tissue growth, FYI.

I'm not saying IGF-1 doesn't cause muscle growth, I'm saying serum IGF-1 test not a reliable indicator whether HGH is working or not.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I'm not saying IGF-1 doesn't cause muscle growth, I'm saying serum IGF-1 test not a reliable indicator whether HGH is working or not.

so, what's a better objective indicator that your GH is "working" ?

 

[bananafeet]

so, what's a better objective indicator that your GH is "working" ?

Diabetes lol

 

[RockyP]

so, what's a better objective indicator that your GH is "working" ?

I’m not sure if this is true for every single user but when i was first prescribed GH for a deficiency even 1.5 iu of pharma grade gave me significant CTS that eventually dissipated and only returned for short periods when bringing the dose up to 2, then 3, then 4 iu daily. That seems to be the best bro science way of determining GH authenticity. Not everyone gets the fatigue from it so im not sure if that’s a decent metric.

 

[Matty_G]

If you want to dip your toes into GH lipolysis, in a low risk. low effort way, you could start with Tesamorelin. Then you can graduate to rHGH later if you want.

It essentially turns up your natural GH production to the point of increasing IGF about 50%.

The nice thing about this is the hypothalamus pituitary axis stays intact. That means the increased GH is released via the same natural pulses as endogenous GH, just stronger. It prevents fat cells from becoming less sensitive to GH from the non-pulsatile continuous exposure to exogenous GH, so the fat burning effect doesn't diminish over time.

The bottom line is timing of injection and meals becomes a non issue, sides are far lower (often non existent), yet you get the a benefit equivalent to a side effect inducing dose of rHGH. "rHGH with training wheels".

Look up Egrifta, the name brand. It's explicitly prescribed for enhancing lipolysis in people with issues from anti-HIV drugs that cause fat mass increases, and it works well for recomp, with an excellent safety record. It costs $7,200 / month and insurance wouldn't cover it if it were ineffective.

Some people will point out rHGH does the same, a bit faster, and if you go with a high dose, significantly faster, which is true, but Tesamorelin will be the equivalent of 1.5-3iu, without the downsides.

rHGH got so cheap the price gap was getting rediculous to the point it was hard to justify Tesa, but it's finally dropped and only a slight premium over rHGH per equivalent dose,

Thanks for this @Ghoul .

I didn’t know tesamorelin was FDA approved!

Is there a dosing protocol you would recommend based off my current lab values?

 

[Matty_G]

Thanks to all the bros chiming into this thread, appreciate this community on meso!

 

[sionnach]

Thanks for this @Ghoul .

I didn’t know tesamorelin was FDA approved!

Is there a dosing protocol you would recommend based off my current lab values?

HIV patients do 2mg/day but I saw IGF increases as low as 4-500mcg/day. It's OK to start low and see how you feel and increase from there. Of course labs are the best check. Some people will retain 4-5# of water during course but it comes off within a few days after cycle.

 

[RockyP]

HIV patients do 2mg/day but I saw IGF increases as low as 4-500mcg/day. It's OK to start low and see how you feel and increase from there. Of course labs are the best check. Some people will retain 4-5# of water during course but it comes off within a few days after cycle.

I run 4 iu daily but recently was on vacation and came off for a week. Dropped About 5 lbs of water and was noticeably more vascular. Slightly less full, but “tighter”
If that makes any sense. I understand why competitors drop the GH 1-2 weeks out.

 

[sionnach]

I run 4 iu daily but recently was on vacation and came off for a week. Dropped About 5 lbs of water and was noticeably more vascular. Slightly less full, but “tighter”
If that makes any sense. I understand why competitors drop the GH 1-2 weeks out.

I dunno what dose of tesa would give an output comparable to 4iu GH. I need more...data.

 

[RockyP]

I dunno what dose of tesa would give an output comparable to 4iu GH. I need more...data.

I believe @Ghoul mentioned that the top end recommended dosing for pharma Tesa would get to about 3 iu equivalent

 

[Matty_G]

HIV patients do 2mg/day but I saw IGF increases as low as 4-500mcg/day. It's OK to start low and see how you feel and increase from there. Of course labs are the best check. Some people will retain 4-5# of water during course but it comes off within a few days after cycle.

Thanks brother, would it be better to check unbound igf1 moving forward or total is fine?

 

[sionnach]

Thanks brother, would it be better to check unbound igf1 moving forward or total is fine?

The only one I've ever seen on my reports is listed as (IGF-1, LC/MS) which I would assume is serum total. I'm guessing unbound is more accurate in the moment but more likely to fluctuate in response to other stimulus like diet. Someone with more experience with this particular metric will have to chime in.

 

[Ghoul]

Thanks for this @Ghoul .

I didn’t know tesamorelin was FDA approved!

Is there a dosing protocol you would recommend based off my current lab values?

2mg / day is the standard dose across the board for everyone.

FYI IGF will rise slowly and plateau at around 3 months.

If you are a strong responder, and end up with IGF around 320 (35% are), that's about what you'd expect with 2iu rHGH.

However, with Egrifta, fat loss at that level is typically around 20% in 26 weeks.

With rHGH, you'd need around 4iu (resulting in a 400-600 igf typically) to get the same 20% fat loss in 26 weeks.

So you can see the lipolysis effect is concentrated with egrifta because of the retained pulsatile release of GH, while rHGH needs a dose that elevates IGF more (+greater side effects and higher risks from elevated IGF) to achieve the same 20% fat loss from lipolysis.

This is what I mean by "starter rHGH". It's highly unlikely you'll hurt yourself in any way with Tesa, with insulin sensitivity problems, severe carpal, or any of the other potential hazards of rHGH). Its safety profile is excellent, probobly because of the body's retained ability to downregulate GH, which is completely overridden with exogenous GH (rHGH). "Training wheels".

Once you plateau with tesamorelin, if you want to go further, you can transition to 3-4iu rHGH, and then increase from there for more fat loss + anabolic effects (from IGF) if you want, but at least you'll have some sense of how you respond to elevated growth hormone at that point from the relatively mild sides of Tesa.